CAD – Accessories Worth Having?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Recently spent a lot of time with SolidEdge Community Edition, which is a feature packed 3D CAD package. At first, SE kicked me all round the car park, and still bites back occasionally, but I've mostly tamed the beast and come to like it.

Now, although 3D CAD is perfectly usable on a laptop, I've realised the advantage of a big screen, and – even better – two big screens! My main computer already had a 25" screen, and I was able to upgrade for nowt because my nephew gave me a 24" monitor plus a graphics card that's Windows and Linux compatible. Two screens excel because they almost eliminate the need to maximise and minimise windows: browse the web and do CAD without them getting in each other's way.

My nephew gave me the kit because the screen is too small and the graphics card too slow to play the latest games. He currently has three curved 32" screens showing high-speed high-resolution animation, and his graphics card cost nearly £1000. The inferior model he's given me 'only' has 2,700,000,000 transistors…

SE recognises the freebie graphics accelerator and the performance improvement is noticeable, going from good to excellent by reducing a multitude of tiny delays. Feels agile, like oil's been sprayed into it!

So far, the improvements cost me nothing. But now I've noticed a conventional keyboard and mouse aren't ideal for CAD, in particular the mouse is overworked, doing both drawing and tool selection, while my left hand is mostly idle. With an improved interface I could work faster, and not being able to is a little frustrating.

I have a birthday coming up, and could direct my relatives to club together and buy me a CAD mouse rather than the usual unwanted ties, slippers, pot-plants, unsuitable books and deodorants. (Get a lot of them.)

Does anyone have any experience of CAD mice? The SpaceMouse line vary from about £350 to £116 plus VAT, so quite a lot of money. I think the cheapest 'Compact' meets my needs, but I've never seen one, let alone tried it. Plenty of other things to spend my dosh on in the queue…

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/06/2022 16:14:13

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

I've used (and still use to some extent) what they now call the spacemouse compact – I do find it useful, but often forget it is there and do stuff with the mouse.

There are specific occasions where it can be very helpful – selecting something where very fine control of workspace rotation is needed to get line of sight to the item to be selected.

I haven't tried the ones with extra buttons, so can't comment on what extra utility they might offer.

A lot of the time my thought processes, rather than the input devices limit my rate of progress.

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

Using the 3DConnexion SpaceMouse totally changed my use of Fusion 360. It becomes your left hand operation with normal mouse in the right hand. You can then tumble and turn your model with ease. There is a simple set of training exercises shipped with the software which after a couple of runs through trains your brain to think two handed. One of my best purchasing decisions, lovely productivity asset to have.

I don't use the shortcut 'buttons' on the SpaceMouse. There are a number of customisation configurations for specific software packages.

Battery life is good and based on daily use I would say I have to re-charge via a USB port every 3 weeks.

I bought the wireless pair of SpaceMouse Compact and CADmouse package which shared a common dongle in a USB port. I found that the sharing of the dongle by both devices led to stutter. In the end I reverted to two dongles, one as supplied with the Spacemouse and one for a conventional Logitech mouse. This could be a reflection of my hardware set up.

On the subject of screens I bought a Dell U2913WM 29" monitor (2560 x 1080) from an EBay second user source. This is a relatively old device but has all 'old' standard ports as well as HDMI.

Alan

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Also consider a "proper size" trackball instead of your mouse.

I've had Kensington ones since 2004 and the idea of going back to a mouse for CAD and spreadsheet work is scary enough to make my ears bleed!

Especially as my CAD program, Vectorworks, often has long distances between drawing and menu items coupled with long menus. Pre trackball I had serious issues with running the mouse off the mat mid transit. Even with the biggest mat I could find. Lifing and resetting the mouse to prepare for long moves got old fast.

Clive

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Most helpful comments from David and Alan. (And now Clive.)

Fine control of rotation is one of the features I was hoping to get, and there's a particular reason why a few extra buttons would speed up SolidEdge. A downside of SE's synchronous mode is it unleashes a strong possibility of accidentally selecting the wrong plane, face, sketch or other feature. To overcome this it's safest to lock to what's needed by explicitly pressing F3 so F3 gets pressed a lot. Synchronous mode is good, but it's not all plane sailing!

Alan's comments are very reassuring, except I hadn't thought of buying a posh mouse as well and am now tempted. The ordinary mouse is OK except it's a bit coarse about 20% of the time – hard to land the cursor on a cluttered feature without zooming in first, a mild time waster. Is a precision mouse worth £70? It is my birthday, and I love myself very much!!!

Ta,

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/06/2022 18:33:26

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

I would hold off buying another mouse until you have used the SpaceMouse. I tend to zoom and pan with it and then once 'big enough' and 'at the right angle' bring the normal mouse into play. A bit like using a camera where you compose the shot and then press the shutter.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Alan Wood 4 on 13/06/2022 18:42:27:

I would hold off buying another mouse until you have used the SpaceMouse. I tend to zoom and pan with it and then once 'big enough' and 'at the right angle' bring the normal mouse into play. A bit like using a camera where you compose the shot and then press the shutter.

Many thanks, that makes sense. My mind is made up – I shall order a SpaceMouse and see how it goes.

Dave

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

There are one or two on EBay at the moment ….

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

Also I forgot to say that I had to change one of the axis when using it with Fusion. This is easy to do in the config.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Unfortunately, I don't have a game-playing Nephew…

IanT

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Alan Wood 4 on 13/06/2022 18:42:27:

I would hold off buying another mouse until you have used the SpaceMouse. I tend to zoom and pan with it and then once 'big enough' and 'at the right angle' bring the normal mouse into play. A bit like using a camera where you compose the shot and then press the shutter.

A bit like the Corfield Periflex camera where you composed through a normal viewfinder and switched to a reflex finder that only covered the centre of the image for fine focus.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by IanT on 13/06/2022 21:02:20:

Unfortunately, I don't have a game-playing Nephew…

IanT

He has to be a generous game-playing nephew as well!

I worry about discussing unaffordium or unobtainium toys. We all hate those magazine projects where the writer waits until Part 22 before mentioning that a vital component: 'can only be made from a kilogram of depleted Uranium; I found mine laying in the gutter at Membury Service car-park in 1972…'

My good fortune has already been punished. I ordered a new SpaceMouse last night and then read Alan's advice there are some on ebay this morning. Too late!

Dave

[george baker 1Participant @georgebaker1]

Hi

"depleted Uranium; I found mine laying in the gutter at Membury Service car-park in 1972.." So that's where I lost it

George

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

, while my left hand is mostly idle

Nothing to do with the subject matter, but nominally I am right handed, so like SOD, my left hand would be idle…

Except that I started to suffer pains in my right hand, so I swopped to my left hand. I didn't bother changing the buttons over, simply used my left hand. No problems whatsoever.

Visitors, however, without exception end up moving the mouse so that they can use their right hand. Almost none of them seem capable of using their left hand! I find it quite comical watching them untangle the mess of cables so that they can use their right hand.

As I said, nothing to do with the OP's subject matter, just an anecdote.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

When I worked as a CAD jockey, I bought a 3DConnexion SpaceMouse when they were first introduced and big monitors and still have them but no longer use it now that I have retired.

I still use Solidworks every week to model the projects which I build but now use a standard mouse on an old 17" Core2 Duo laptop. A bit slow but fast enough for what do.

Mastering the use of a multiple button 3D mouse and instinctively using the appropriate finger to operate is a very long learning curve and requires constant practice to remain efficient.

The one thing that I taught myself when I first started CAD was to use the mouse with my left hand so I could type with my right. (can't type left handed), making modelling much faster by not having to keep putting down and picking up the mouse.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Best mouse ever IMO, I've used it for gaming as well as CAD

The 5 button intellimouse optical

Edited By Ady1 on 14/06/2022 10:58:25

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 14/06/2022 10:40:16:

, while my left hand is mostly idle

…

As I said, nothing to do with the OP's subject matter, just an anecdote.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Not at all – I think it's relevant. Mice are tools, and tools don't always fit comfortably with how we work, so what then? Useful to know it's possible for a right-hander to learn to use a mouse left-handed. That it confuses visitors is a bonus! I've just tried and it's really hard.

Dave

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

CAD is no different from gaming insofar that you have to learn how to drive properly

and that takes practice with the right tools

If you want to be REALLY fast at spreadsheets for example then you ditch your mouse completely and only use keyboard shortcuts (Did it for a living)

The mouse was originally invented for people who couldn't use a keyboard properly

Edited By Ady1 on 14/06/2022 11:20:22

[PatJParticipant @patj87806]

I use AutoCad 2004 to make a living, and use it all day, every day.

When I started my own business in 2003, I had to start doing all my own CAD work, and so I had to be very efficient at doing that, in order to make money.

I programmed fly-out toolbars on the side of the screen for every symbol that I use, and I programmed macros for every symbol, so that it would automatically scale to the correct size, insert on the correct layer, and be the right color and linetype.

For commands, I changed many of the stock the keyboard shortcut keys, so as to put the commands that I use most offten close to the index finger on the left hand.

I keep my left hand on the keyboard, and work the mouse with my right hand.

Shortcut keys include:

R = rotate

RR = rectangle

T = Trim

U = undo

E=line

R=rotate

RR=rectangle

RRR = regenerate

F=move

D = delete

C = copy

CC = circle

H = hatch

V=offset

V V = mirror

B = block

A = matchproperties

S = save

X = explode

XX = xclip (I don't use paperspace, but rather xclip xternal references to size)

I set the mouse up so that the right button is used for ENTER.

 

The trick is to focus on the screen, on the object you are modifying, and never look down at the keyboard or at a toolbar. Any time looking away from an object is wasted time.

Using the above items, I would estimate that I have increased my CAD speed by a factor of somewhere between 5 and 10.

I am able to do all my own CAD work, and some projects have 100 sheets to them.

Another trick to speed things up is I put all 100 sheets in a single CAD file, so I can see all the sheets at once, and zoom/pan around them, as well as copy/paste between them.  I have been told by multiple people that this method won't work, and is a BAD idea.   I am laughing all the way to the bank.  I do have to keep religious backups frequently, so I don't lose all of my drawings when the file occasionally gets corrupt.

At one time, I made some piano wire extensions for certain keys on the keyboard, such as F8 (ortho toggle), and F3 (snap toggle), so I could reach those keys (wire extentions) easily with my left index finder.

I am not using the wire extensions at the moment because keyboards keep changing shape.

And I have a custom toolbar with a button for each snap, to allow me to toggle on and off certain snaps, such as nearest (when drawing circuits), and other snaps when appropriate.

I normally keep the snaps endpoint, midpoint, quadrant, center, intersection, perpendicular turned on at all times, and toggle other types of snaps on and off via the toolbar as needed.

If proof is in the pudding, I make significant amounts of money every year doing CAD and design work by myself, so this is not just idle conjecture about what may work well.

I have started to set up Solidworks with shortcut keys in a similar fashion, but since I don't use Solidworks every day, I have not customized it to the same extent as AutoCad.

And I had to make a custom finger guard for my right index finger, to prevent permanent damage.

I use press-and-drag on the mouse wheel to pan on the drawing, and this puts a lot of pressure on the index finger.

To make a finger guard, I put on a nitrile glove, wrap two layers of a thin cotton handkerchief around my index finger, just past the first joint, coat the cotton with epoxy. The end of the guard is open for ventilation.

I cut a small pad that can be bought in the pharmacy (for padding toes an such), and put it on my index finger before I start to make the guard; perhaps 1/2"x1/2", and this creates a void in the guard.

When the epoxy sets, I pull off the nitril glove, and insert the pad into the void that was left in the guard.

I could not work without the finger guard. I tried store-bought finger guards, but they did not work well.

.

 

Edited By PatJ on 14/06/2022 12:08:38

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The 3DConnexion SpaceMouse is more than a mouse. It combines features of a mouse and joystick to manipulate 3D models.

With the main knob/post, twist it to rotate left or right or spin the model. Raise or lower the knob to zoom in and out. Pan left and right or a combined move in one operation.

Details here: **LINK**

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

New toy arrived, and it's obvious I shall have to practice with it. Well-made and solid, it allows CAD models to be rotated, moved up down, left-right and zoomed rather like flying a plane with a joystick.

Although intuitive and precise, working the thing left-handed isn't natural to me yet, though I'm already getting there. The main problem is accidentally ordering two or more moves at the same time, such as putting a slight spin on a zoom so the close up finishes upside down! Combining movements will be very useful later when I can control them, because I'll be able to fly around models quickly.

Alan's 'compose the shot and press the shutter' description matches how I'm using it already.

Found setting-up was well thought out and easy to do, had the SpaceMouse connected and working after about ten minutes.

Dave

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

This "handed" thing is, I think quite funny, or perhaps I should say peculiar.

I had a colleague who was so left handed that he had to swop knife and fork over. Other colleagues & friends simply seemed to use right hand for everything. I also have a grandson who appears to be a mixture – knife and fork for example swopped over, yet other stuff being right handed. As I mentioned earlier, I swopped over my mouse with no discernible effects – actually there was one in that when my youngest son swopped his mouse buttons round, that caused me no end of confusion.

I think the earliest I became aware of this was when I was asked by the class teacher to clean the blackboard so I got hold of the board rubber(?) and set about reaching up using my left hand only to be asked a) Was I left handed?, (No miss!) followed by b) Well why are you using your left hand? (Dunno Miss, I just am!). Since then I have found myself doing certain things automatically with the left hand, perhaps not as strongly as the right hand, but still lefthanded. But the oddest thing was when I came back from hospital having just had two stents inserted via my right wrist. I was instructed to avoid using my right arm for two weeks so when "boss lady" asked me to light the coal fire, I set about it using my left hand – until I tried to use the tongs when my left hand adamantly refused to work. Eventually, I noticed that every time I tried to operate the tongs, my right hand was making all the movements – so much for don't use it! After that, my left hand worked fine. A mental thing perhaps?

So Dave, yes, you may well find it difficult initially, but should improve with time.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

Edited By Peter G. Shaw on 16/06/2022 11:04:09

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

How is the Spacemouse going Dave ?

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Alan Wood 4 on 27/06/2022 20:28:03:

How is the Spacemouse going Dave ?

Very well thanks, pleased with it. Took a day or two to get used to it, then click, suddenly became natural, almost automatic. Parts can be zoomed, spun, and moved with my left hand whilst my right hand controls edits . Though not essential in the sense it does new things that can't already be done with mouse or keyboard, it speeds certain operations up considerably. Particularly useful when working on Assemblies of many parts.

Although I'm concentrating on SolidEdge at the moment, a quick play with Fusion360 suggested the SpaceMouse is even more useful on that. Might be because I'm more familiar with Fusion and am still learning Solid Edge, but my gut feel is the SpaceMouse sits with Fusion's interface a notch or two more comfortably.

So far not using the buttons as much as expected – I guessed what functions to put on them and need to think again.

Recommended with the caveat that it's usefulness is proportional to the amount of CAD being done. Not worth buying for occasional cadding about, definitely worth having for anyone CAD fluent who is even slightly busy.

Dave

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