Buying advice sought re Milling Machines: e.g. Proxxon: FF230 vs. BFW40/E vs. MF70

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I don’t know about the prices … but please do be aware of this statement :

The BFW 40/E is shown here as a tool combination with the mill/drill unit BFB 2000 and compound table KT 150. Neither tool is included.

MichaelG.

.

Ref. **LINK**

https://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/20165.php?search

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

In the fresh light of morning, I have found prices: **LINK**

https://www.germantools.co.uk/product-category/proxxon-precision-engineering/proxxon-precision-engineering-proxxon-mill-drill-system/

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ and I’ve found details of that motor unit:

http://www.proxxon-tools.com.au/downloads/manuals/20165%20BFW_40_E.pdf

… which looks pretty tidy

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/09/2021 08:44:18

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Thanks Michael

I have blown a chunk of money on a Proxxon MF70 (one of my worst decisions) and so can't afford a new BFW 40/E, but am considering getting something second hand on eBay or similar.

Do you have any thoughts about how it compares with this "Proxxon BFW 36" ?**LINK**

And it is this BFW 36 that I can't find a manual for.
I am also wondering what the "/e" stands for.

The BFW36 is on for £458.00, but given how old and beaten-up it is I can't imagine he'll get anything close to that. I am considering making a (very) cheeky offer for it.

J

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I would presume that /E denotes electronic speed control, and likewise I would presume that 36 is an ancestor of 40 … but I could be completely wrong.

Not really familiar with the  Proxxon range

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/09/2021 10:08:22

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

> I would presume that /E denotes electronic speed control, and likewise I would presume
> that 36 is an ancestor of 40 … but I could be completely wrong.

Yes, I have just had confirmation from Proxxon that this is all correct.

OK I have created a separate thread to see if I can draw in anyone who has experience of the BFW 36/E.

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=174870

J

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by John Barrett 7 on 25/07/2021 17:42:08:

I wouldn't be without my Proxxon BF40/E. Versatile, accurate, and I do just about all my sheet metal work and fine milling with it. It drills 6mm holes in MS without a grunt, squeek or noticeably slowing down. I recommended one to a friend and he said that he blesses me every time he has to drill small holes quickly and accurately.

Although I have an FB2 for the heavy stuff, most of this has been made with it…

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ZYsMEo3.jpg[/img]

John – Your experience has inspired me to look again at buying a BFW 40/E (or possibly its predecessor BFW 36/E)… however I just realised that you were talking about "DRILLING 6mm holes in MS without a grunt". But I am planning to used it more for MILLING than drilling.

Realistically what is it like at milling mild steel?

J

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

John – What is so bad about your MF-70?

Dave

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Dave S on 24/09/2021 12:38:15:

John – What is so bad about your MF-70?

Dave

1. I need to work in mild steel quite a lot. The MF70 CAN mill the stuff but but it's very slow.
e.g. I just needed to mill a 90° edge of 1mm thick MS into becoming a 45 degree chamfer.  It could do it just but it took about 4 or 5 passes, and if you try to mill deeper it gets slower and slower.

Ultimately the MF70 spins too fast and generates too little torque to make it much good for milling MS. It's motor is rather under-powered at 100watts.

2. You can't change the angle of the device on the MF70, so you have to rotate the part being machined. And this can be tricky. Whereas on the BFW-40/E (and also I think BFW-36/E[?]) you can change the angle of the device.

3. I haven't yet measured the 'runout' but the MF70 is painfully noisy. I don't really know why… but I suspect that there is quite a lot of runout / wobble in the spindle.

4. The build quality of certain aspects is appalling. For example of the 4 screws to hold the milling table in place one of them was so badly manufactured that it was physically impossible to fully screw it in. The other 3 screws were fine. In the end I had to find an old bolt and cut it down to size. For a brand new machine to arrive with such a low build quality is APPALLING.

Passing Comment
Ever since I have known Proxxon it's the same overall feeling. Their kit is definitely quite expensive but nonetheless one minute their kit is a dream, you are glad you bought it and it really makes you smile… but in the next minute you are cussing and swearing that they didn't make the damned thing properly!

If there was a brand that was just like Proxxon, and maybe even a bit more expensive and but at least properly made, I for one would be all over it. Tragically they don't seem to have any such competitor.

J

Edited By John Smith 47 on 24/09/2021 15:16:42

[John Gray 7Participant @johngray7]

Just to put the record straight and to attempt to level the Proxxon a phobia let me speak up for Proxxon kit. In my opinion it is ludicrously expensive, usually under powered but reasonably well made. I have quite a bit of Proxxon kit and taken within the bounds that it is intended for, it performs extremely well. Taken outside it’s comfort zone into areas where it was never intended to go, it will not perform well. The main Proxxon kit I own that may be of interest to this forum and the OP in particular is the 250E lathe, and the BFW40e milling system. Used within the capacity of the lathe, I have not yet found a task that cannot be done. It would not suit many people. You won’t be making 100 thou cuts. You have to learn to work within its limitations. In a commercial environment it couldn’t cut it, as it would be too slow. Brass and aluminium is a breeze. Mild steel at least EN1 or 3 is also simple but a little slower. I have cut stainless steel and cast iron castings without issue, albeit in small model sized pieces. Much the same can be said of the mill system. I have only used the mill on metal. It’s first ever use was on a block of steel that I squared up and machined to size to replace my compound on the lathe and bring the tool post to size, as I don’t always use the compound, and can benefit from the increased rigidity. It coped perfectly well with this. Yesterday I machined some extra T-nuts from mild steel bar, again without problem. Come to think of it, I also drilled the 5mm holes in them using the drill function. I have many times on other occasions drilled 6mm holes in steel without issue.

The Superpower of this Proxxon kit is that when I’ve finished, I can, even at my age, pick it up and store it on my table saw. When I want to use my table saw I have to move it again. I would dearly like a Myford or a SC4 but I just have not the the space to commit to something that I cannot move. But the real point is that this small kit is very capable of machining metal albeit slowly. The flavour of the argument on this thread seems a bit like the owners of fast expensive exotic or luxury cars rubbishing the guy in the small family compact. They will both take you where you need to go, albeit at a slower pace. This is my first post. Please be gentle with me!

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