Buying a Lathe Advice

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

I am new to lathes other than a few lessons in school over 30 years ago. I have been looking at getting a Lathe for my home garage workshop where I will be using it to assist in motorcycle project. I have been looking at the Warco 250v lathe that has been suggested by Warco…

I was wondering what people's views where on his forum.. Is this more lathe than I need? Or about right?

To assist me on budgets; What accessories will I need once I have the base lathe to cover most projects?

All advice is most welcome

Edited By Jamie Jones on 05/07/2015 11:31:10

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

[Tim ChambersParticipant @timchambers76147]

Posted by Jamie Jones on 05/07/2015 11:30:44:Is this more lathe than I need?

What accessories will I need once I have the base lathe to cover most projects?

All advice is most welcome

Edited By Jamie Jones on 05/07/2015 11:31:10

1st question: Never!

2nd Buy tooling as and when you need it, only time and practice will inform you of your requirements.

Edited By Tim Chambers 1 on 05/07/2015 11:57:10

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Jamie,

The Warco 250 will probably serve you well. I have a slightly larger lathe – HBM290 – different paintwork from what Warco uses though. I am mostly pleased with my 290 and like the wide bed and large bore.

I use both HSS tools and carbide insert tools on my lathe, a revolving centre is nice to have if you turn work between centres, as is a QCTP.

I assume you have read this review of the WM250, and the threads about it on this site.

Thor

[paul 1950Participant @paul1950]

I asked advice on a forum when I bought my first lathe and bought a new well known lathe, I spent the first year repairing it and when the warranty ran out I sold it on eBay as spare parts to get some of my money back and bought a Boxford lathe that gives me no trouble at all. For the price of a new lathe how can you expect something well built that will last.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Hi Jamie

I have the WM250V-F bought at the Harrogate exhibition in 2012, this model has he power X feed which I have found very useful, the latest versions have been upgraded motor wise & later models… 280/ 290 have slightly better specs, but horses for courses… & budget limits. I am very satisfied with my machine to date, the finish is what you expect from a Chinese machine so don't expect Rolls quality. All in all a decent machine; it has done what I have given it & expect it to do so go for it.

As for tooling I have a set of indexible tip tools, some HSS tooling, but mainly use a Tangential tool from Eccentric tooling … usual disclaimer ( see ad on right of page ), a heavy duty revolving centre, a light duty centre, from there on buy as you need… or make your own, see thread on WM250 family for more info' …drop me a pm if you need any other help… happy hunting.

George

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

p.s. Jamie…

**LINK**

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

Thanks for your advice so far…

I would be interested in your views and comparisons (pro's & Con's) between this models

Warco's VM250v

http://www.warco.co.uk/metal-lathes-metalworking-lathe-machine/303007-wm-250v-lathe.html

And

Toolco's

1028gv

http://www.toolco.co.uk/pages/bakery/1022gv-variable-speed-lathe-9.php

1028gv-p

http://www.toolco.co.uk/pages/bakery/1022gv-p-variable-speed-lathe-469.php

1128gv

http://www.toolco.co.uk/pages/bakery/1128gv-variable-speed-lathe-342.php

I know that the Warco Lathes will take a deadicated milling head attachment… Is this important? I do have a seperate milling machine although I guess that it could be handy…

At this stage being new to lathes I am unsure what key features are best suited to doing motorcycle projects. I would hate to find that I purchased the wrong lathe just to save a few quid for it to cost me more in the long run..

All advice is welcome

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I bought a 250V at the beginning of this year and so far have no complaints. I tend to push my machines to the limit and this one is no exception. It has handled everything I've thrown at it with no complaints.

Big advantage with the current model (and similar machines from other suppliers) is it has a 3 phase motor and decent inverter rather than the DC motor and controller of the older version.

I changed the 4 way toolpost for a Dickson and removed the leadscrew covers as these limit the carriage movement too much at the headstock end.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Having looked at the Toolco version… 1022gv-p… it is 99% identical to the WM250V – F I have; the minor differences are slight variation in dimensions weight etc, the picture shown is the model without the power X feed, ( it should show the x feed lever under the cross slide hand wheel as does the 1028gv-p )… just badged under Toolco's name.

I also changed the 4 way t/post for a Dickson type t/post; I haven't removed the leadscrew cover…yet, as I have not had need to use the faceplate, no doubt will later when the need arises, but for now…

George.

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

The first question to ask yourself, “Is it big enough” no good buying a machine that is too small for its intended use. It’s not just diameter but also length you do not want to be too close to the limits better to have a bit of room to spare.

The lathe in question in terms of swing and distance between centres is similar to my 5" Boxford and at times I have had jobs that did not fit and if I was looking again I would probably go bigger. If I was making clocks it is too big but I'm not, main restriction has been length of bed but occasionally want to swing over 10"

Bob

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

If I remember right the Toolco ones have a 38mm spindle bore, if I'd seen these before ordering mine I'd have probably got my lathe from them. However buying the lathe is only the start and if something goes wrong then customer service will play it's part and on the whole I think Warco has a good rep for customer service. I've not heard of anything bad about Toolco so they may be just as good.

My WM280v is way better than my old worn Harrison so don't be put off by the Chinese origins, also finding a good Boxford etc at a good price is quite a challange and more for a person who knows what to look for in a second hand lathe.

I've just bored a motorcycle barrel on my lathe and it's come out very nicely and certainly as good as I've had from many bike shop rebores.

Re size, you'll always find parts that are too big and my decision to get the 280 over the 250 was the width of the bed and the extra weight.

Equipment you can collect as you go, the Warco comes with nearly everything you need to get started but I'll second the comment about getting a Quick Change Toolpost, they make a huge difference is speed and convenience.
Revolving centre, HSS tools and maybe an indexable tool holder or 2, a variaty of boring bars, parting tool…. The list goes on

Steve

[BowberParticipant @bowber]

Just checked and it's Toolco's 11" (280mm) that have the 38mm spindle bore.

Steve

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Throwing the spanners in the works.

For a ~£1,500 budget you could do much better looking on the used markets. Most of the British lathes (Colchester, Myford, Boxford, Harrison to name but a few) can be found in very good order with tooling for your Budget.
You may however need to get an Inverter if the motor is 3 phase.

[Bob RodgersonParticipant @bobrodgerson97362]

Hi Jamie,

a lot depends on what you want to do with your lathe. I started with a Myford bought new in 1980, this lasted me well and it is still in the family because I gave it to my son in law when I upgraded to a larger lathe.

I started in Model Engineering by building a 5" gauge Simplex then a 5" gauge "Enterprise, I found this ideal for the model loco's but I was kind of restricted to 5" gauge because 7 1/4" is just that bit larger and machining some of the larger diameters would have presented problems.

I drifted back into motorcycles once my kids grew up and became independent of Mum and Dad, I started doing more and more heavy work such as making flywheels, truing crankshafts and so on. I found that I was really working the Myford to the limit because by now I was working on a commercial scale with the motorcycle stuff.

When I decided upon change I went for one of the Chinese built Warco machines (BH600) which, though not the greatest of machines, is capable of some accurate and heavy work. I use it for all sorts of things like making flywheels, crankshafts, re-boring cylinders and making pistons and piston rings etc.

You probably have heard that you should buy the biggest capacity machine you can afford, this, to some extent is true. Don't buy the biggest you can afford but buy a machine that is capable of throwing the largest diameter you can foresee you are likely to machine. However, remember, most of your work initially will be simple stuff like making bolts and fasteners, spacers and the like and a great big lathe might not be happy making these smaller things so a compromise is probably the best solution. Or ideally, get one of the mini- lathes that are widely available under various badge names and use this for your small work and keep the large lathe for the rest.

As for what tooling to buy, again this depends on what you intend to do with the lathe. As your skills develop you will find that you need more accessories to do an ever increasing variety of jobs. Before long you will need a milling machine, this will be followed by various other essential bits of workshop equipment. A good set of cutting tools is essential to start with though things like tailstock die holders and a rotating centre will also come in handy from the off.

Regards,

Bob (AKA Humbernut)

I built my first model locomotive using a bench drill and the Myford as well as an 8" double ended grinding machine. My workshop now extends to two lathes, two milling machines a cylindrical grinder, heat treatment furnace,tool & cutter grinder, two bench grinders, Pedestal drill, Oxyacetylene equipment, propane equipment, shot blasting gear and a whole host of tooling too much to mention. This has been amassed over the last forty years and must have cost an absolute fortune so take your time and build up slowly.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Advice on lathe capacity. The centre height/swing is more likely to be the limiting factor than the between centres distance.

If you want a lathe to do a specific task, make sure it is big enough to handle this and a little bit more.

If you want to make locos (other than Stirling Single wheelers) you will find that even a modest lathe will swing the largest parts of even a 7" loco (the driving wheels or flycutting the bottom of things to fit on the boiler)

If you want to make stationary engines or traction engines the flywheels/roadwheels will be the largest parts and may well be bigger than you expect even for modest sized models.

If you want to work on cars/bikes think of skimming brake disks.

If you want to make IC engines, other than hefty stationary ones most of these (even radials) can be machined on fairly small lathes.

If you just want to just enjoy yourself working metal, the actual machine is almost irrelevant, as your choice of subjects will be guided by the capacity of your rather than the other way around.

Neil

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

Is a 38mm spindle bore acceptable for my requirements for doing Motorcycle projects? Being new to this I just know that I need a Lathe without the experience of knowing what I need to order… Also is 500 between centres acceptable?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Jamie, a 38mm bore should be fine for most motorbike work. Just make sure the lathe's swing is sufficient to set up a pair of flywheels for truing etc if that is what you want to do. (Although, I made simple pair of centres on a piece of channel steel that I use for flywheel truing rather than my too-small lathe.)

It's nice to be able to turn an 8" brake drum etc too. But not essential. Most bike work is smaller stuff: spacers, axles, nuts and bolts, bushings, valve guides, pins, pistons, drifts, etc etc.

If you need to turn something long that is greater than 38mm, you can still do it in a 38mm bore spindle lathe by using a fixed steady to hold the job while the end is held in the chuck. This gives you the ability to turn longer jobs large diameter, up to the length of the lathe bed.

Another piece of tooling you will find you need will be a good parting tool. Also of course measuring equipment, perhaps starting wth a digital caliper and dial indicator gauge. Micrometers and T bore gauges will not be far behind.

And I would say 500mm between centres is acceptable — but that's all. It's nice to have the extra bed length, not because you will be turning long jobs frequently, but because it allows you to slide the tailstock well out of the way when not in use. Jagging your hand on the tailstock centre while measuring a bore etc gets to be a real pain in the, well hand, after a while. Buy the longest bed you can afford.

+1 on what Alex said too. Don't forget about the used quality British lathes on the market. If you can find one that has done little work – as many of them have – and buy it complete with all the tooling accessori3s the previous owner spent a small fortune on, you can end up with a good deal. But buy a clapped out one and it could be a nightmare, so buyer beware.

Edited By Hopper on 06/07/2015 07:07:58

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

Hmm

Had the opportunity to have a quick chat to someone in the motorcycle workshop business today..

As others have suggested I will need a 38mm spindle bore…

But it would seem that the motors in the lathes I have been looking at might be underpowered at 1hp… Told that I would really need a 3hp machine for working on bike parts… Told to have a look for a Myford or Colchester or Harrison…

Anyone know which models would fit the bill?

[Alex CollinsParticipant @alexcollins55045]

Hi. The Myfords have a ~16mm spindle bore unless you find a Big bore version.
Not sure on the other suggested makes.
**LINK** have good tech info on most lathes.

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

Forget the Myford due to the spindle bore size. There is a large bore version but these are rare and expensive.

What era / makes of bikes are you planning to work upon.? – This may help you in choosing a metric or imperial machine. Of course it is possible to use either for both but it would make things simpler.

Consider a Harrison or a Colchester of a 3 phase type. But you would then have to also budget a couple of hundred extra for a VFD to drive it.

Nick

[Jamie JonesParticipant @jamiejones42723]

Both the bikes I have are modern.. Not sure what projects I will have in the future.. (I am a metric person, but guess I might have to learn imperial mind sets)

[Bob Brown 1Participant @bobbrown1]

For a spindle bore of 38mm you can forget Myford.

There are some others that may fit the bill like Chester Crusader or Warco GH550 needless to say bigger machines and they are more expensive.

Bob

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

The Chester Crusader Deluxe is fantastic value for the money, I don't think anyone else comes close and for bike work it would be ideal.

A machine of this ilk would 'future proof' you for quite a few years in fact may be your working life if looked after.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Some one was asking a similar question on another forum with similar limited experience. It's a tough one to answer as used lathe buying can be a mine field so in the end I had to suggest new cheaper Chinese. He was thinking about biding on a well used Myford ML7. The Chinese industrial machines are in an entirely different budget bracket. The comment they make about the cheaper ones and industrial use really relates to how long they will last in some respects if worked hard for long periods but there are other factors as well such as chuck size.

One example of the used lathe nightmare. Some one on Ebay had the bright idea of posting a video on a Colchester Triumph including showing it working. I've used numerous geared head lathes and know from the noises it was making that it's seen rather a lot of use. Also from the way the swarf was coming off that the headstock bearings are very probably rather loose. That can be a very expensive thing to fix if needed and some wont be adjustable. Given the state of the gears there will also probably be a lot of bed wear. Net effect, lathe turns a taper what ever you do and also the finish is likely to be poor unless heavy cuts are always taken. The cross slide will also very likely be rather worn as well. It's possible to buy completely reconditioned lathes of this sort of ilk from dealers but costs rise.

Spindle bore comes down to turning bar stock really. If the bar wont fit through the spindle pieces have to be sawn off and need some length left to hold in the chuck. When the actual part is parted off a short piece of bar will be left over. They build up as often they are too small to be of any use. A pro view on that for a SMALL lathe would be a spindle that can take 1in bar as that would cover a lot of work a lathe is likely to do. It can be handy to have a chuck on the lathe that has a 1in or more bore as that means that the left over bits can be longer and are more likely to be of use.

Lathes generally specify swing over the bed – often the cross slide travel wont cover that range. I'd hope it always covers the swing over the saddle and some as clearance is needed.

Some one mentioned a used Boxford. My personal feeling is that these are likely to be a better buy than many other used lathes but they are all under drive unless an ME10 can be found which is a bench lathe. The newer ones could also be bench mounted – cost used with some kit probably £3K plus for a fair example There will be well worn examples about of all types though. On this range a bigger spindle bore means a VSL which has 35mm bore. Those are far more likely to have been used in work shops that turn from time to time so should be a good proposition. The costs of chucks escalates on these though due to the spindle fitting as it does on many other lathes that don't use a simple screw spindle fitting. The older Boxfords may come from schools etc – or may have been used heavily by some home turner until it wont meet their finish/accuracy needs or some job turns up that needs a bigger lathe.

If you do buy used do hang on until one comes with the basic bits and pieces – 3 jaw, 4 jaw, face plate and at least the fixed steady. Burnherd chucks too or at least one of the well known makes. To be honest though Burnherd chucks are still better than these which is why they cost rather a lot more. Better in this case means less likely to break in use. It's not too difficult to strip or bend the scrolls in some makes of 3 jaw chuck just by tightening them too much. It's a bit harder to do that on a Burnherd.

John

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Edited By John W1 on 06/07/2015 12:01:47

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