Buyer beware

[CrabtreeengineerParticipant @crabtreeengineer]

HSS twist drills

[CrabtreeengineerParticipant @crabtreeengineer]

Boy & Gals, just bought three blacksmith drills off Ebay 28mm, 30mm & 32mm all reputed to be of High Speed Steel.

Nothing like HSS, will not even touch mild steel.

Buyer beware.

Regards R

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi

They could be high speed steel but not as we know it! Probably shot out of the factory before they were finished . Seriously thanks for the warning, were they from a well known seller or one of more obscure sources that lurk there?

Cheers

Martin

[CrabtreeengineerParticipant @crabtreeengineer]

Hi Martin, no not one of the more well known UK suppliers but direct from Hong Kong! You make a good point….it may be worth a try to harden them before I chuck them in the bin!

Regards R

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Hi,

I trust you will lodge a dispute with Paypal and ask for a refund? I would say 'item not as described' should cover it.

Tony

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

hi R,

serves you right for buying cheap crap!

buy Dormer etc and they will (as im sure you know) last you many many years!

cheers,

julian

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi Julian

I have too bought from Chinese suppliers and frequently been surprised at the quality of the items received, mainly good. But it can be a lottery though a check on the feedback of the seller often reveals more than the actual percentage score, as you say though if you want a product that is guaranteed to do the job and last then purchasing from a recognised manufacturer is the way to go.

Cheers

Martin

PS

We had a cheapie shop locally and I also bought from that with good results, one being a long set of SDS drills that have been to hell and back and are nearly as good today as when bought.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

"

hi R,

serves you right for buying cheap crap!

buy Dormer etc and they will (as im sure you know) last you many many years!

cheers,

julian"

Nice attitude. Bad enough he got burned without you kicking him in the arse. JD

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

One other thing.

Some time you buy cheap crap and it is.
Some times you buy quality and it isn’t. .

The quality assurance isn’t as hard and fast as it used to be.
The main difference seems to be the retailer. …your willingness and ability to return said crap.

[Martin Botting 2Participant @martinbotting2]

"Liquorice" anywhere in the item description? I do feel for you as I have done the self same thing but never had the "bottle" to publicly admit my foolhardiness. Years ago when we had the "oil shop" where you could get everything from step ladders to dolly blue bags and you could feel/look at the item you could have some comeback and more than likely the drills would be made in the UK. Would you care to name and shame to stop other folk falling for the same thing. ME FOR ONE! (Love a bargain me, and MUG is the tattoo on my forehead) and if the vendor gets the hump for bad mouthing him so be it… send em back and name and shame. this is the price we pay for modern communication, lets face it the whole world is opened up by the internet, this forum being one, otherwise we would still be writing dear sirs, and the ME would be 50 pages of letters of shipwrecked wanna-be engineers craving help.

Good luck and thanks for sharing!

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Does anyone make drills in the UK now? They all seem to come from the Far East or South America.

I have found that most HK suppliers are good and will replace or refund a faulty item no questions asked. If they are crap tell them.

As for hardening them at home; If they are HSS then it is not practical. The temperatures are very critical and mustn't be exceeded.

Russell.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

With Dormer A170 blacksmiths drills in the larger sizes retailing around £100 a pop you would need a lifetime to pay for them, can hardly blame people for looking at less expensive options particularly on items that may not get used regularly.

For general work I use some of the far eastern milling cutters and keep my dormers for best. They are ideal for work on castings where a hard spot does not care what quality the cutter is it will still take the edge straight off, I'd rather scrap a cutter that cost £2 than one that cost £20+

J

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I can see reference to Dormer drills made in Brazil, China, and USA. Think they are owned by Sandvik(? spelling). Ian S C

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 11/03/2014 09:27:54:

Does anyone make drills in the UK now? snip

Russell.

Presto do, last time I looked

Dormer are still good wherever they are made with the ones I have had.

Steve

[Graham TitmanParticipant @grahamtitman81812]

It is all very well slating off far eastern products but without them myself and a good many more would not be members of this forum or be able to afford to do model engineering.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just out of interest J A Radford used to make his own cutters from annealed HSS and harden them himself. It must therefore be possible to do it at home (not for everyone, I know, white heat, air blasts…) Let's face it, some people cast iron at home.

The ability to make an HSS gear hob, for example, would be quite useful. So my question is – does anyone still make their own HSS tools?

Neil

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by Graham Titman on 11/03/2014 12:20:48:

It is all very well slating off far eastern products but without them myself and a good many more would not be members of this forum or be able to afford to do model engineering.

In a nutshell.

"Ripped off by a Seller on eBay!" Shock! Horror! Welcome to the 21st Century.
It doesn't matter whether the seller is based in the Far East or the UK, there are a great many sellers who sell "cheap" goods. I decline to use the word "shoddy" for the simple fact you KNOW a one pound milling cutter is not Tungsten Carbide produced in Solingen or Sheffield.

Just look around the town centres – Amusement Arcades, Banks, Fast Food Outlets and Pound Shops. Some people buy cheap and wonder why it breaks during use? We all like a bargain but really, you just know that if it is too good to be true it probably is.

Now, having said all of that it is possible to buy Far Eastern goods at terrific prices and if you are buying just small quantities at little money you won't incur import tax or VAT so it really can be a bargain. But trying to find a good seller of bargain priced goods on ebay is like sticking the tail on the Donkey! Research – and there are plenty of forums and review centres on the Internet so if you do your homework you can buy good at a reasonable price. You can't do this by just picking a seller and hoping for the best.

graham.

[DismalduncParticipant @dismaldunc]

Well I'm on the converted list I've been using cheap ebay drill since I started this malarkey a couple of years ago (bought um in batches of 5 as they didn't last) then I bought a few presto from rdg, the difference is staggering they romped through steel with no pressure at all. I now plan to gradually replace the old ones and only use them to drill through warm butter and very brown bananas

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I get blacksmiths drills described as HSS from Tool Station . They are branded Silverline and all have given good

service. They are undoubtedly imported but Tool Station is just up the road and change any faulty items immediately and without quibble. From the latest catalogue 14mm £3.14 up to 25mm £8.59.

Eric

[Danny M2ZParticipant @dannym2z]

G'day.

These drills and cutting tools are still made here in Australia and the quality is first class. I love them.

http://www.sutton.com.au/

Well worthwhile for some enterprising importer to consider them for the U.K. market

Regards * Danny M *

Edited By Danny M2Z on 11/03/2014 18:21:03

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

In No way relevant to choclate drills.

If one buys something from a vendor on ebay( other online aution sites are available)..and it fails to meet expectations. ….does one get the item price refunded or item +p&p…
I mean contractually. ..
It seems that the p&p was not faulty…
Thus is one entitled to refund of p&p ?

Now move on to this..In many cases the p&p seems inflated to make the “price” low but the whole transaction viable…
Eg.widget worth ( ?5)..ebay price ?1..p&p ?6..total price ?7..goods may or maynot be faulty but vendor still has ?7 sale

Edited By jason udall on 11/03/2014 18:31:43

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