Build threads.

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

At the risk of having to don the old tin hat sharpish, I'm much more likely to read about bees than a blow-by-blow account of making a specific model.

I have been a subscriber of either ME or MEW since late 70's (of course I was in nappies) and guess what; i have never made a model since my dad stopped helping me make Airfix aeroplanes at Christmas.

I like reading snippets about models. And emissions, and telescopes, and bodging .and bees …… Especially bees.

Cheers – Will

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

As previous contributors have said, there are a number of other forum sites where one's build progress can be documented. However, it was only a little over a month ago that Neil Wyatt started "The workshop progress thread". I find a thread which just lists a series of pictures and "first I drilled this hole, then I drilled another one a bit further away" can bit somewhat dry and soon lose their appeal. Occasional posting in Neil's new thread would be one way to keep tabs on a particular build which interests you without jamming the site with threads that can be hi-jacked and led off down side roads and ultimately a cul-de-sac. If I was to start a thread and have it taken over in that way, I would be severely tempted to cease posting. At the end of the day, there is nothing as far as I am aware, to stop anyone starting a build thread on this forum. If you get no feedback or comment, stop posting and put it somewhere else.

My 2pee

John

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Posted by John Hinkley on 12/11/2015 14:10:38:

At the end of the day, there is nothing as far as I am aware, to stop anyone starting a build thread on this forum. If you get no feedback or comment, stop posting and put it somewhere else.

My 2pee

John

My point exactly, that's what's happening – nobody has any interest in posting build threads here so they go to another site.

It's the sites loss.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Well I've been a bit nonplussed by all this and have started, a couple of times, to make a response. Thank you Bill ( Cornish Jack) for so neatly encapsulating my thoughts!

I've not take Model Engineer for some time – although I do have a few models made – and in progress. I do, quite often, get Model Engineer's Workshop so I suppose that it is the PROCESS that interests me.

I value this forum as contact with others who have similar interests and as a place where I can always get the answer to ( pretty nearly) any snag I may encounter. We are pretty isolated here and so my view on the ME world is largely through these posts. I'm also quite happy to hear of the bees progress – my main interest there though is the end product on my toast!

For the OP – the idea of "Build Threads" does not excite me but, for those who do like them, then there is a section where they can reside as a build chronicle or reference for future builders. I'm unhappy though with the concept of not commenting on these threads – I would not now do so following the adverse reaction to comments, made by others, some time ago.

As far as the forum goes then my opinion is " If it aint broke then don't fix it!"

Norman

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Norman,

Another member has put in the time and effort to show his build and you say it 'doesn't excite you' ? yet you are happy to read about beekeeping ?

What on earth are you doing on a model engineering forum ? it's an attitude like that which leads people in to not posting their efforts.

Can you blame the member if he pulls the plug and no longer shares his build progress ? – for goodness sake give the guy some credit for his efforts. If he does abandon his thread then it's a great loss to the site.

If you want to discuss bees that's fine – join a bee keeping forum.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

As far as the forum goes then my opinion is " If it aint broke then don't fix it!"

I second this proposal

There is a broad church of individuals in here, as long as beginners can come in and not get bashed then it's all good

It's a forum that caters for grumpy old blokes who do interesting stuff

There's nothing stopping a poster putting one of their build threads in here

Edited By Ady1 on 12/11/2015 15:22:09

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

Peter, I'm inclined to agree with the comments from Norman & Ady above. In my opinion, beginners are broadly welcomed and helped in a variety of ways by the more knowledgable contributors. Build threads can be a great tool for enlightening beginners etc.,but to cater for all different tastes and levels of expertise you would need probably hundreds to make everybody happy! It is a fact that there are other sites that "do" build threads really well as have been pointed out by others in this thread so why not use them for their intended purpose and accept that this site can offer just as much advice and help but maybe in a different format.

Generally speaking the build threads that have appeared on this forum seem to have been well received by those that follow them. However those who post them should be prepared to see them through to conclusion and not threaten pull out part way through when a few people mention that they arn't particularly interested in them in general.

Regards Martin

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

As far as the forum goes then my opinion is " If it aint broke then don't fix it!"

But with members feeling they have to go elsewhere does that not suggest something is broken or at least needs fixing?

I will say that I find the term "build thread" possibly a bit too specific but would like to see posts of whatever goes on in your workshops be it a model, parts for a motorbike, a telescope stand, etc. Really anything that others can look at and get ideas for how to go about things, set ups, choice of tooling, etc. I don't have an engineering background and picked up what I know from books magazines and forums but if nobody is showing how they do things then nobody else can learn.

What I would hate to see if the forum go from an armchair to a whole branch of furniture land

J

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have just posted on Garry's thread

I think it's relevant … others may disagree.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 12/11/2015 19:50:14

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

I have sets of a Stuart 10V and 10H that I am considering doing as a build thread possibly with video as well. Is there any interest on me putting the build on this forum? They would be machined on a Warco WM180 lathe and a Warco WM14 milling machine.

Edited By David Clark 1 on 12/11/2015 19:53:58

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

David…you might find embedding the video a challenge. .

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

Please do David, the more builds the better as far as I'm concerned.

Anyone else prepared to stick their neck out and try to show a bit of build work even if it's not a full ongoing thread ?

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Jason Other people have embedded video. I doubt it will be a major problem. I wil probably do a thread about fitting a readout to the Warco WM14 as well. Yes, it has been done before but my method of fitting the Y axis is unusual and could be used on any mill with a tapered base casting.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

David,

Yes please

I have already declared my lack of interest in the end-product, but; given your background, I would be very keen to follow the process.

MichaelG.

[Gas_mantle.Participant @gas_mantle]

As someone with no milling experience but who is looking to buy one soon I'd love to see anything that involves setting up in a mill, showing the cutters used, methods of operation etc.

It's fine reading about these things but far more informative to see photos of how others do it.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Michael I will do it then. As I will be machining the 10V and 10H at the same time I can do different stops for the same or similar components.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 12/11/2015 20:09:03:

Hi Michael I will do it then. As I will be machining the 10V and 10H at the same time I can do different stops for the same or similar components.

.

Thanks, David

Sounds like a good plan

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

First, I would argue that the diversity of this forum is no greater than many others. The astronomy forum I visit has extended threads about photographing tardigrades, the weather in France and the latest John Lewis advert…

As for those who have had yet another poke at astronomy, the topic has a long history in Model Engineer. One index lists 104 articles on telescopes and 34 classed as being 'astronomical', not including book reviews such as 'Fireside Astronomy reviewed in 1904. I'm not quite sure how one of the magazines (minority) interests can be seen as not being acceptable as a minority interest on the forum?

I have fiddled about with the topic titles to allow those who want their forum activity unpolluted by subjects outside their comfort zone to avoid them more easily, but please don't forget this is the forum for both Model Engineer and Model Engineers' Workshop – and the latter magazine caters for a wider range of interests – MEW is for to engineering tools, techniques and materials that may be in the context of any hobby from vehicle restoration to mechanical art.

As for build threads, from my perspective, I think that the problem we have is that very few people have actually posted build threads on this forum and most of them (including my Adept one) are progressing too slowly.

Back in the days before I was editor, I posted a 'tutorial' thread on machining a steam engine cylinder from solid. David actually mentioned it in MEW, but I don't think it got a single comment… so I assumed it was either not very interesting or not very good and didn't repeat the exercise.

I think experienced builders probably want to access the more specialised experience of, say, loco or traction engine builders which deters them from posting here, but I would welcome someone having a go at a build of a more involved/specialist project, especially if it focused on the more challenging aspects.

If it would help for moderators to be a bit more active in moving irrelevant 'chit chat' out of build threads, then if the 'owners' of such threads ask for this to be done, we can.

I have tweaked the title and sub-title of the 'Work in Progress' topic, as it implied it was just for photos. It's now clearer that it's also the place for build threads.

</sermon>

Neil

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

It's all fine and dandy wanting build threads on this site – but it's forum not a magazine with paid contributors.

I've produced a number of build threads:

https://stevewithnell.wordpress.com/2009/04/ – My version of the Victoria

http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=98041 – My Stuart Coombes build (unfinished)

https://whittlev8.wordpress.com/2010/10/ – Making the crankshaft for the Whittle V8

Fact is it takes a lot of effort to produce a build thread. After every machining stage you have to stop, take some photo's, mess about making sure the lighting is right for the features you are planning to show. Then you have to write up to match the photos and upload the photo's.

I probably won't bother again. Garry is making heroic effort pressing on with "My Little Engine", but the effort to keep it going should not be underestimated (particularly keeping those machines chip free… ).

If everyone contributed just one build soup to nuts, then happy days, but no one should be under the impression that a handful of people are going to produce build threads ad infinitum for the entertainment of others.

So what happens is the reverse – someone posts "how do I?" and a load of people contribute an answer – some of those having decades of experience. Tons of value in that, even if it's bee-keeping!

I could ask why are there NO team builds?

Steve

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Peter Nichols on 12/11/2015 15:03:37:

Norman,

Another member has put in the time and effort to show his build and you say it 'doesn't excite you' ? yet you are happy to read about beekeeping ?

Doesn't excite me either. You wanna have a go at me too – just because my mindset doesn't conform to the one that you think is "correct"?

My first thought when I saw this thread was that build threads will happen and be viable naturally if that's what people want. You don't have to force, or even encourage, them – there's plenty of room for all. And berating people who don't share your enthusiasm would seem to be counter-productive, not to mention mildly offensive.

(…. and no, I don't care much about beekeeping threads either – which is why I just move on and leave them to those that do).

Edited By Bandersnatch on 12/11/2015 21:50:55

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I feel that on public forums to post a build thread you have to be a certain type of person. One with a lot of interest and a lot of patience.

You also need to either learn to ignore or grow a thicker skin as there will always be the ones who even though welded to an armchair, will know better.

Definitely no room for wilting daisy's Just because there are not oodles of back slapping posts does not mean that the work is passing by unnoticed, just that 'like' posts tend to distract from the flow of work. Also a fine line between showing too much and too little.

Too little and the inexperienced cannot follow on but 27 pictures, all of a main bearing cap, tends to make most peoples eyes glass over.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't regard myself as a model engineer (too many vices for that ) nor am I particularly interested in machining . However, I am an engineer, and I am interested in engineering and the theory and understanding that goes with it.

The subject of build diaries is a difficult one. Some are boring and uninformative, basically just a series of pictures with no explanation, leaving you wondering how did they do that, or how did they ensure that those features lined up, or why they bothered? On the other hand it is very time consuming to write a coherent and informative build diary with some form of overall narrative. I would regard that by 'Garry_C' as one of the best on here. It has also been good to see him learn, and then move on to more complex operations under his own steam. I run a build diary for my traction engines on the TT forum:

**LINK**

If anybody cares to skim through they will notice that there are very few replies, unless I've asked a specific question. That seems to be the nature of most build diaries, good or bad. However, there is a 'thanks' button on TT so people can show appreciation, so at least you know it's being read. I also post occasionally on MEM, although there, again, with one exception, I get few or no replies. So why don't I post here? Let's look at some of the comments I've had in response to posts over time, in no particular order:

1. I have a well equipped workshop with mostly ex-industrial machine tools, so the techniques and methods I use are of no relevance to the average model engineer

2. I regularly use a CNC mill, but that's cheating and shouldn't be allowed – and as for 3D printing, well really, quite beyond the pale in polite society

3. I am a cheque book engineer

4. I've got an engineering degree so I can't possibly be any good compared to the man in his shed

I also run a theory thread on TT, although it has been in obeyance for some while due to other pressures:

**LINK**

Clearly this thread is specifically related to traction engines and is therefore probably best hosted on a traction engine specific forum. However, I would never attempt this type of thread here. Why not? This forum has always had a bit of an 'edge' and there's nothing wrong with that. In the past I've been involved in full and frank (!) discussions on bevel gear theory and the design and manufacture of worms and worm wheels amongst other things. And very interesting discussions they have been. However, I get the impression that the forum has become much more dogmatic, with many 'experts' laying down the law with no quarter given. The thread I started on helical gear theory got rather hijacked by some long and rambling posts, which is largely why I decided to duck out.

I have suggested to a moderator that rather than a 'Tea Room' area we need a 'Wine Bar' area (pun intended) but sadly it seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Andrew

PS: Sorry about the puns, that's what happens when your formative years are the 1970s

[Martin CottrellParticipant @martincottrell21329]

Posted by John Stevenson on 12/11/2015 21:53:06:

Too little and the inexperienced cannot follow on but 27 pictures, all of a main bearing cap, tends to make most peoples eyes glass over.

Not to mention 13 minutes of video parting off a component under power cross-feed. Hope he's using cellulose paint to finish the engine, if he uses enamel I'll have to upgrade my broadband speed to watch the "here is my paint drying" video! 😴

To be fair though he obviously has put a lot of work into presenting the thread, including the faultless cleaning down before each photo! Shame to see him run off (again) when it was all going along nicely. Strange.

Martin.

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

I love this resource, but can anyone justify to me why bee keeping should even get a mention on a model engineering forum?

[Mark CParticipant @markc]

Andrew, If we get a wine bar will we have to have a smoking room or will that depend on where in the country/world you are? Also, I was looking forward to some interesting stuff on the gears but it did all start to get a bit anal in the end (with lots of boring links etc – something I was guilty of as well) which was a shame.

I like to think that I offer constructive input when possible – or what passes as humour in my mind otherwise and that works for me.

If people want to close it down then there are plenty of other places I could go to amuse my self (I like the Boxford group) so it does not bother me much, but it does seem that the majority are happy with things as they were (it seemed ok before all the extra subjects to my mind) based on the number of complaints v those that like the status-quo. Clearly everyone else is happy enough with things as they can't be bothered to comment either way? Why change stuff around for the hand full that complain when Neil pointed out that there are a great number of users who are registered?

Mark

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