Bronze balls in place of steel balls in a Land Rover

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

The suggestion of a Prius would be for electric power- assistance by way of a replacement steering column – we use Corsa or MGF in the UK for all sorts of classics. The LR will require a rebuilt steering box in any event, and I would stick with OE spec. There are plenty of classics that have had a box to rack conversion engineered, but this LR is not among them afaik.

Edited By john halfpenny on 31/01/2021 18:58:35

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by john halfpenny on 31/01/2021 18:56:11:

The suggestion of a Prius would be for electric power- assistance by way of a replacement steering column – we use Corsa or MGF in the UK for all sorts of classics. The LR will require a rebuilt steering box in any event, and I would stick with OE spec. There are plenty of classics that have had a box to rack conversion engineered, but this LR is not among them afaik.

As pointed out about 12 posts ago.

It is possible to use steering racks with solid axles, but it has to be mounted directly to the axle and you still have to be careful to make the arms the correct length. There needs to be a robust sliding joint attaching the column to the rack that allows for all the suspension movement. Steering columns aren't designed for this articulation, so its mounts or the entire column needs to be strengthened. This all looks horrible and isn't worth all the rather rough engineering required to make it work safely – bump steer is unpleasant through to bloody dangerous – compared to rebuilding the stock box. It's not as if Land Rovers are rare.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Best idea would be to jack up the number plates and swap in a Toyota Landcruiser or a Nissan Patrol.

John

[Peter Jones 20Participant @peterjones20]

For the OP I would say use oversize hardened balls and a full synthetic high pressure lubricant.

For everyone else, insurance is probably the biggest legalisedf theft there is.

I obtained a Florida insurance licence,

There are a lot of con-men in insurance industry, the ''manager ' who convinced me was one of them. It's a totally disgusting immoral industr yfull of very hypocritical greedy people some who actually believe they are 'doing you a favour'

I refused to sell the overpriced products and was literally marched out the door..

Since then I've been approached by numerous companies, many even more unethical although still staying within the boundaries of 'legal'.

I'm fully aware there is insurance fraud, but, majority of people really are pretty honest and insurance companies spend far more on lawyers fighting cases to avoid paying money to genuine claims with lawmakers supporting them. Just take a look at insurance company reserves and profits, most are in the several billion range. That was not what insurance was meant to be.

I did some research many years ago,

Richard Price from South Wales (Llangeinor actually) was a vicar who 'invented' actuary tables (risk of loss) He was also a friend of Benjamin Franklin and an 'honorary' American)

The State licence exam pass rate is less than 20% so it shows the caliber of people involved 'over here' (only 17% passed first time in my group, yes, I was one of them who passed)

Guess that's enough of a rant, almost 6 years on I'm still disgusted by the things I found out.

[William SParticipant @williams]

Hello all

Right thank you all for the reply's, I won't be changing the balls then! It was just my thoughts, I asked for peoples mechanical opinions on the change, not for more reply's about insurance than what I actually asked (I doubt my insurance company would even know what I was on about if I told them down the phone!) Like the last post I also see insurance as the biggest con going but thats my opinion.

ICS I have been in contact with the prices arent exactly cheap but I did say in my original post I have no problem with that, I was just looking in to improving the longevity of the remidial work done. Thanks for the info on ball screws manfactures, definatly something to look in to, I hadnt actually thought about them. However using larger balls is not possible as they have to travel though a tube on the nut so it would requre a lot of re-work. The actual worm shaft is welded up out of 3 pieces.

I did not criticise the original design of the land rover steering, so why some people seem to think I want to totally redo the steering with a rack etc I dont know. Thanks for the suggestions but maybe read what I wrote in the begining again. The fourtrak point has been noted, however they seem to be at about the same cost as land rover stuff for a good one so I will probally just save all the hassle of redesigning the system and just keep it original.

My land rover is a 1963 2a diesel, 2 owners from new, within a 15 mile radius of each other in Devon, It was almost a shame to bring it over to Kent but hey ho! Being a 63 it should have the wire spoke, pinch bolt clamp type wheel. mine doesnt it has a series 3 box and wheel, the steering lock facility is the biggest giveaway. this box appears to have been second hand when installed itself so the wear had already taken place, I think then a poor set up and adjustment when installed has caused the damage. the original owners manual doest exactly say when to change the oil, it just say to cheack it at regular intervals, im not sure what the service manual says as it not close to hand at the minute.

I have managed to source a genuine NOS worm and nut for both the correct type box and my series 3 box. I will rebuild this and use it untill, I find an early wire spoke wheel so I can return it to stock if I also can find an early box in the future.

Thanks for the importance of setting the swivels, I wont touch them as they feel fine at the moment. I plan to overhual the axles next year so will address them then.

Thanks again for the help

William

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

If you aren't already a member, it would be a good idea to join a Landrover forum, they could advise on the optimum oil to use in the rebuilt box.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

These are appalling devices used in heavier duty vehicles.

I used to know the allowable play at the steering wheel in an MOT is about 1/2" for rack and pinion but 2-3" for recirculating ball.

In my experience land rovers often have horrible steering, though I don't doubt it can be set up properly. We had an LDV camper for a while that passed with so much slop that any correlation between where the wheel was pointing and the direction of travel was coincidental…

I recall I was able to make it just about safe by adjusting a screw on the bottom of the gearbox and otherwise tightening evrything in sight, but I still hated driving it, even with freshly aligned steering it wouldn't keep to a straight line.

I doubt changing to Bronze balls would be wise.

I'd suggest biting the bullet and getting a reconned unit.

Neil

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

For a few years I had a Series 2 as a tow truck. (It would tow a 8.5 ton coach off uphill in FWD Low )

The steering was vastly better than the Mk 1 Transit.

Once, my assistant and I had one for a week, driving up and down the south coast. After he had had a near miss and my being exhausted after two days, I realised that we were not steering it, but dribbling it down the road like a football. On Day 3, John did on his own what we should have been doing together, while I had the van over a pit. Having tightened everything in the worm and wheel box until full lock was tight but just tolerable, it was driveable without undue fatigue or risk..

The joys of rack and pinion!

Howard

[DiogenesIIParticipant @diogenesii]

..the only design fault with the Series steering box was that the adjustment screw and nut were plainly visible from above.. ..and you know what happens to overly-prominent adjustment screws…

– it wasn't unusual to go look at a well-used II or III in the eighties & nineties and find that it only progressed in a series of straight lines, it being a common myth amongst 'experts' everywhere that 'that screw'll take some of the slop out of the steering'.. Good luck with the interior restoration.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

William, is this your first Landrover?
I bought mine just after passing my test in 1987, during the BT strike, and have had it ever since (Though I also now have a 300TDi Disco and a Marlin Berlinetta, as well as a few bikes) .
As far as I know, I'm still on the original 1974 steering box, and probably exhibits the same wear as your original one.
I wouldn't worry unduly, particularly as you've sourced a new worm and balls; it will probably last as long as we are allowed to drive such things, so long as you don't over tighten it when you re-assemble.
I don't know how many miles I've done in mine, but certainly round the clock, and all over the country on very long day trips as a motorsport recovery operator until I retired from doing it a few years ago; in that time I doubt I've adjusted it more than half a dozen times.
Normal recommended oil is still EP90 for the box, though I use one-shot thixotropic grease in the swivels.
My SIII Lightweight also came with a 3 bearing 2 ¼ Diesel, which expired after a year or two, and has gradually been modified over the years; now 3.5 V8, Jag Borg Warner 66 Auto, high ratio transfer box from Ian Ashcroft, front disks, and parabolic springs.
Arguably the biggest comfort improvements were some RS2000 seats, and carpeting the inside of the hardtop roof.

I appreciate your desire for authenticity, but one noticeable steering improvement for me, was to have a car steering wheel, rather than a SeriesIII one.
Mine actually came with one off a Marina, same splines and a direct swap. The rim is slightly thicker and an inch or two smaller, as well as being padded; it doesn't seem to make the steering any heavier.

Bill

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