Brass Shell Case

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Well Chris – make it 19″ and then it will fit in a Myford. Steady = plywood as recommended by Ivan Law!

 

I don’t think there is a problem dropping them either end first on a blunt stony surface. 

 

The back end is electrically not percussion fired – on tanks anyway. Whether so on Naval ordnance I don’t know. Front end had all the primmer shutters G/inertia switched. So one was tolerable safe.

 

You may well have to cut the primer – on some of these rounds it is not a button in the base like rifle ones. Its a long tubular jobbie all the way up – to give even ignition. again, not beign a fixed case man so much I’m not that familar with the detail. Some did, some didn’t.  I would guess the naval stuff didn’t because it was neither high velocity nor requiring a consitent accuracy within seconds of arc.

 

I’d be interested to know about the residues. That is a a good one. You have a tube full of black powder initiated by lead styphnate, and you have stuck it in the middle of a high pressure burn????

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 14/01/2010 18:51:34

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Circlip,

I would prefer “long stroking” ( those who have the honour to know me personally will understand why) with a normal hacksaw frame fitted with a 32TPI blade, giving the required minimum of two teeth engagement( X two), much less effort methinks, less chance of marking the work with the frame too. Neither compass nor pencil nor ruler needed.

If someone will give me a shell to play with, I might even do an illustrated article for ME, hint hint.

christephens

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Sorry Chris, one telescope maker and two ashtray makers have nowt to prove.

 

   Regards   Ian.

[Frank DolmanParticipant @frankdolman72357]

 

     The 3.7″ AA gun’s round was notorious for being heavy enough to

  set itself off simply by being stood base down on an unlucky bit of grit.

   There are several reasons why an HE round will not go off before it

   has been fired but even so, I would not deliberately throw one off the

   top of a tank.  If that really was Meyrick’s habit, I begin to wonder if

   hygroscopic Delrin was the real cause of his troubles.  The fact that

   APDS contains no explosive seems a poor reason for failing to

   respect it.

                                       Regards

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

My point Frank was that you could drop it with out coming to harm. I didn’t say it was recommended, or that I went about doing it.  Sometimes it happens accidentally. So, unless that is invisibly writ in the blank spaces, please don’t imply what is not written.

 

Had you troubled to read what was was actually written, I did say I was not Centurion crew, so I never routinely handled fixed ammunition until later when I served in Scorpion – doubtless you will know that Chieftain used split bagged charge ammunition with an exposed igniter pad, vent tubes, and had no shell (HE) with nose fuzing.  HESH is base fuzed. So how am I to be throwing these sorts of rounds off the top of anything?

 

Next point – I don’t think we were talking about aged and obsolescent anti aircraft ammunition. Were we? Why that should cause one to draw some conclusion when a different ignition system is under discussion I have no idea, particularly as the primer contents and sensitivities are almost certainly different. .

 

As for hydroscopic Delrin. There was an investigation by RARDE – that was the cause. That is the end of the discussion.

 

Now please stop being obtuse or silly. Whichever you prefer.

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 14/01/2010 23:18:01

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 14/01/2010 23:19:46

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Although this post was written before Meyrick’s reply, it is still valid.

Hi Circlip,

Awww, me wanna play!

Hi Frank,

I don’t think he was actually advocating such behaviour, and granted that an APDS round has no whoosh bang in the projectile, it does have a modicum of such in the other end. 

If one is extracting the Urine, it is usual to put an emoticon in the message to show it is all in good fun. 

Hi Meyrick,

If some one at the MOD decided that the case needed to be stamped GEE, if the OP is in fact correct as to what that means, then someone must have thought that residues might be a problem. Unless it was to show that the new owner would not be hassled by the anti terrorist crowd, by having trace amounts of the loud stuff.

chriStephens

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

Hi, After all this bumf !!! about ammunition interesting it may be, but did “Circlip” safely cut his shell case to size ?

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Circlips’ shell case was converted in reply No5 and was done thirty years ago, the 20mm and .303s about 48 years ago.

 

  We wait with baited breath to hear how “Niloch” does with his.

 

  Regards  Ian.

 

  (Post numbers would REALLY help DC1)

Edited By Circlip on 15/01/2010 14:51:30

[MichaelRParticipant @michaelr]

Whoop’s !, I got ” Circlip” mixed up with “Niloch” it dosen’t take much to confuse me at times.

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

Edited

Circlip managed to reply before I had the chance Stick.  You will have gathered from Circlip’s response that I was the originator of this post.>>

> >

I concur with Circlip that post numbers would help so that reference to them could be made more easily.>>

> >

Perhaps I’m mistaken Stick but do I detect in your post a little frustration with the relevance or otherwise of some of the respondents posts here, especially perhaps, on page 2 onwards?  >>

> >

One doesn’t of course, wish to sound ungrateful but it is clear to me that there is a certain amount of showing-off of knowledge which is not very germane to the original question being displayed here.  >>

> >

I’m sure that many members here have knowledge gained in a previous livelihood but, thankfully, keep such knowledge to themselves.  I briefly mentioned that I had a glass cutting bandsaw but very rapidly also mentioned that such information belonged to another forum.>>

> >

I did in post 17 respectfully reprimand members for using abbreviations which may not be familiar to British nationals and English speaking members largely in deference to our foreign colleagues.>>

> >

I requested information about  IRRC, apparently a method recommended by Ivan Law and recommended by Meyrick in post no. 2.  When John Hayne made a contribution in post 16, somehow or another, this had morphed into IIRC.

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

.  In post 19 Steve Garnett accepted this inaccuracy and mentioned that IIRC was a bog-standard e-mail abbreviation.  Does this forum really want to use e-mail or, come to that, texting abbreviations?  Steve Garnett continued by telling us that YMMV is an abbreviation for your mileage may vary  –  really?>>

> >

Chris Stephens came to my rescue in post 20 drawing my attention to a web site which gave information about acronyms.  Thank you very much Chris, now I know that IRRC stands for the Idaho Rangeland Resource Commission or could it be Infrared Remote Control amongst fifteen unlikely others.>>

> >

I suspect that all members here would support the highest standards of craftsmanship in a whole variety of skills pertinent to our hobby, for example, those of boilersmiths, silversmiths, tinsmiths, blacksmiths etc. etc.  I find it unfortunate that the skills of a wordsmith are, apparently, not very highly regarded by many contributors.>>

> >

Well, Stick, thank you for asking; I did mention in one post that my workshop/garage was far too cold to use at the moment so the shell case remains at the length at which it was bought but as I also said, (a) it does make rather a melodious door-bell and (b) I shall re-visit this post, to give the requisite words and music when the job is done .>>

 

Sorry, for reasons I am unable to understand, this post had to be submitted in two parts.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Niloch,

Always glad to help, and where would we be if we did not know about “infra red remote control” etc.

I tend to agree about Acronyms, they are often used by a particular body to keep outsiders, out. Their use is made worse by the odd typographical error, but then who of us is perfect, all the time. It is though a useful site, baring the said errors.

chriStephens

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

And who had the temerity to insert all those inane emoticons.

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Niloch on 15/01/2010 15:53:34:

In post 19 Steve Garnett accepted this inaccuracy and mentioned that IIRC was a bog-standard e-mail abbreviation.  Does this forum really want to use e-mail or, come to that, texting abbreviations?  Steve Garnett continued by telling us that YMMV is an abbreviation for your mileage may vary  –  really?

 

I find it unfortunate that the skills of a wordsmith are, apparently, not very highly regarded by many contributors.

 

And now you get a slight rant, I’m afraid.

 

Yes, I certainly said all that. But you will, of course, note that I haven’t used any of them myself – pretty much for the reasons you alluded to regarding non-native English speakers.

 

It’s worth mentioning, though, that the initial reason that many of these abbreviations came into common usage – and they certainly are – was not because of a lack of language skill per se.  It was primarily because people, at the time of their introduction, simply weren’t very good at typing with more than one finger. So most of these abbreviations have been around for a good while now, and still remain used even though the general level of typing skills has improved. Or has it? Maybe not; I don’t actually know.

 

Personally, as I said, I’m quite happy to type the words; I’ve had a lot of practice so it’s not a problem. I would concur with your final observation, but also note that people with the combination of engineering and writing skills are unfortunately rather rarer than one might hope for. And if that extends into typing ability, which it logically could, then yes, you are likely to get more abbreviations and ‘interesting’ spellings, I suppose.

 

But almost in the same breath I should make it very clear that this isn’t a criticism of anybody. I don’t expect everybody to have the same level of ability in communication skills, in just the same way as they don’t all have the same level of engineering skill. And I think that this has been generally recognised across a lot of forums, to the extent that it is now generally considered to be polite to ignore all ‘interesting’ use of the language as long as the intended meaning is clear. And whilst that may not be an ideal state of affairs, especially perhaps when it comes to abbreviations, I think that it’s probably the best one to stick to, just to avoid a load of strictly unnecessary thread interjections.

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

Hi All

 

I know that I am risking hitting a hornets nest with a big stick, but here goes:

 

With respect of contributors including details of their experience while working in various disciplines I personally welcome it. Yes it can divert the topic a bit but by and large, in my opinion, there is a wealth of knowledge to be gained from these asides. Also, yes I know that I shouldn’t start a sentence with a conjunction, there can be real benefits from this, I refer to to Meyrick’s comments re the possible chemical hazards remaining from the fusing in certain ordnance. Call me thick but it is not something that would have crossed my mind had I been working on an old shell case. The risk might be negligible but it is better to be informed than to be ignorant of any risk.

 

The fact that something is stamped GEE, unless bought from source with certification, is no guarantee to its provenance or safety so any extra information regarding potential problems is good.

 

The acronyms and there use can be frustrating but we as engineers, all disciplines, have been using acronyms for years and accept them because we are familiar with them. Things like RMS, AC, DC, thou, mm, ins, MT2 etc are all abbreviations/acronyms that are in common use and don’t even warrant the raising of an eyebrow!!

 

So a little tolerance will go a long way, if its not relevant to you skip it, and if you don’t understand just ask.

 

Looking forward to the thaw and getting back to making angel hair (sorry swarf) in abundance.

 

All the best to all and have a productive new year.

 

Martin W

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

  I certainly apologise if my comments are seen as showing off – but I think one must accept peoples enthusiasms. That’s is after all what spurs them on, it is what one is tapping into, and it is the reason why they learned about things.

 

At the end of the day one lathe cut is much like any other. Once someone has got to the point that he can hit diameter or dimension with certainty, the only thing that sets anything apart is what the object is, or is to be.

 

As an  example, in this post did we need to know it was a cartridge case for storing fire irons? Surely the whole thing could have been reduced to – I have a bit of 5″ by .070 wall thickness brass tube, made of work hardened cartridge brass and I need to cut it.

 

About as exciting as wet fish – unless one is an angler, or a brass pipe enthusiast. One way of guaranteeing short and uncontroversial threads.

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 16/01/2010 09:11:10

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 16/01/2010 09:11:38

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you don’t know the meaning of an acronym,just go to google,or similar,a minute or two and you should have the answer.Ian S C

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Acronyms are initial word letters that make a pronouncable word, eg. BSW not, BSA (beeza) is. Thread interesting for me, recently tried similar with 4″ dia S/S tube ,flue pipe, unknown spec., made a steady from black bar, brass pads etc. but it would not cut. Used angle grinder with fine disc, cleaned up with stone disc, rechucked and marked line, recut to line, good enough for job, IMHO. Still got the steady as well.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

As Gordon Says, the accepted definition of ‘Acronym’ is a pronouncable word made up from initial letters of a phrase eg. Laser (light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation) .  Abbreviations on the other hand are simply initial letter of a phrase eg iirc, lol or imho (although the opinion is never ‘humble’ and this last abbreviation should never be used imo!). Not too sure about BSA though.

 

Most modern abbreviations developed due to sms (short messaging system) otherwise known as texting, because of the limitation to 256 characters (I think, although I stand to be corrected).

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by Terence Dixon on 16/01/2010 11:31:18:

Most modern abbreviations developed due to sms (short messaging system) otherwise known as texting, because of the limitation to 256 characters (I think, although I stand to be corrected).

It’s true about the modern ones – but compared to the earlier abbreviations (some of which are acronyms), which are literally what they say they are, these are somewhat worse as far as I’m concerned, because they are alphanumeric. I mean, I really don’t want to see posts containing things like ‘ what cutting r8 r u using, m8?’ – that simply looks absurd!

[EastleighiteParticipant @eastleighite]

Now come on you chaps, do your bit for the green lobby and turn off those lathes. Run a line around it with your height gauge, grab a pair of ‘Gilbow’ tin snips and in a spiral fashion,(mind your hands as the flash rolls off) , gently work your way gradualy to your line.     Ten minute job,  giving more time for the  –   ‘Yorkshire Tea brew’  by gum lads 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

You’r going to be working hard with the ‘Gilbows’ the shell case is going on 1.5-2mm thick of hard brass!

[EastleighiteParticipant @eastleighite]

I could do the job for nout, if you bring it round, at 76, i could show you nippers a thing or two about metal work, the last place that i was at, the boss came up to me,  to tell me that – ‘R/R bristol’, had just been on the blower, to say how pleased they were with the job that i had done. nuf said.

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