Brass for making tools

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

I need information/knowledge on what is the bendability, will shaping hold, cutting circles (or just cutting. I am trying to make a tool that will domb?doom at small bead (true) of hot glass. The brass ficture will then be mounted on common pliers (will brass soldier to the pliers).

I am thinking that the brass sheet will have to be .25" to hold its shape, the sheet will be 1.5" square, and I'm thinking about making a clay model and then a mold and then using one of those automotive paste metals to fill the mold.

Any thoughts? I've seen the posts on hardening, and tempering, I;ve read some on cold working, but think the .25" gauge is going to require some heat.

I need a lot of information so thanks in advance for sharing any knowledge.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Want to make tools for shaping got glass

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hello PJ, It does not seem very clear what you trying to achieve — maybe a drawing will help? Is it a mould to make glass beads?

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Yes, going to be used to form the ends of glass beads while they are still being worked (still on the mandrel – welding rod). The end of the bead will be heated in a propane/oxygen torch flame until it is soft enough to take a shaping/impression from the brass tool. I'll work on a picture.

Thanks for reading. Will get back to you.

[magpieParticipant @magpie]

Hi PJ would a doming block do the job ? Using one of those would give you lots of sizes. Cheers Derek.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Well yes it would, Derek! What a thought…duh on my side. I'll have to create a doming block of the desired pattern but that would be a lot better than trying to bend it. Now it comes down to what thickness of brass sheet will be able to be hammered into shape and then hold its shape.

I did do a drawing of the tool which I'll post now.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

**LINK**

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Edited By pj newt on 17/04/2013 02:04:50

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Please excuse my messiness. I have a bit of stuff hanging off this thread. I really like the doming idea. I con make the mold out of clay, then top it with a metal paste that turns hard (back to that carborator fixer), let harden, put copper sheet on top (probably need to build a fence/sport of some sort to hold metal exactly centered over top doming shape, pound away. If lucky once pounded the metal square will have a convex sida and a concave side. I'll just have to figure out how to mount it on the pliers after I've cut it in half. Will drill a hole in center before all the pounding to help me find the center of metal on point of center of doming block.

Jeeze, I'm tired.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Oh yeah, back to my original question. I'm conserned on the strength of the copper sheet in terms of bendablity (how to half harden, generally prep for bending) and what gauge or thickness would be suggested for keeping its shape. I don't think that the tool will be held in the flame long enough to change it, and I'll actually be heating the glass, taking out of flame and then shaping the glass with the tool.

If anybody has knowledge of brass sheet or knows where to direct me please jump in.

Also Derek, thanks so much for your suggestion. It cleared my mind out real fast.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

after some more thinking on how to describe this, take a circle or a square, divide into 8 equal segments, have every other segment line up and the next one down, forming 4 peaks and 4 valleys.

Wish I'd thought of that first.

 

 

Edited By pj newt on 17/04/2013 18:20:41

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Glass beads of all sorts of shapes and sizes have been made since the dawn of time by cutting the relief shape into a block of metal , dropping a completely molten drop of glass in and quickly putting a weight on top .

Usually a good idea to anneal the glass bead afterwards to stop it cracking .

Industrial manufacture of cheap glass jewellery stones is done by what is practically injection moulding .

Use of brass is non preferred since under some conditions both copper and zinc will leach into the glass giving either a coloured bead or more usually just a dirty bead .

MikeW

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Yep, that's why Steiner makes optic molds. Of course getting one made for my purpose is cost prohibited.

In lampwork, brass slides nicely over hot glass.

I did call Rio Grande after seeing somebody post them somewhere in the forums I'lve been reading. Rio suggests 8 or 10 gauge, cutting groves in the lines for increasing bendablity. I also read about two sides pressing of the metal. I'll have to talk to the local woodworkers and see if I can get a block cut witt the angles needed.

For fun see: http://www.isgb.org

Been with them over 15 years.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Hi PJ,

I found that all a bit hard to follow at first, but I think I see what you are trying to do – make a two-part mould that you can clamp around a bead to shape it?

I would suggest that filing the shape in a thicker peice of metal may work better and be more durable than trying to fold something up.

Neil

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Yes on using something on both ends of the beads, yes on one side of the metal needing to be the oppisite of the other. No on it being a 2 part mold, that would be more appropreaite to the shaping of the press of the brass sheet.

I do however hear what you're saying I think, but would worry about how heavy that would make the tool. I;m a girl…bad forearms…lifting heavy stuff isn't goinig to happen.

Are you saying that filing is a possiblity? Isn't that gong to be hard to do? Also I'm not sure I could afford a block of brass. But I totally agree that bending/folding is going to be hard.

I thought of the optic mold type of thing that MikeW mentioned early on but abandend it because 1) I don't have access to the lathing/cutting/shapping tools and 2) because a bead is made on a long mandrel with the bead anywhere on the mandrel but far enough for your hand to hold away from the flame. This means you may be able to get the end of the bead pressed, but the end toward your hand isn't going to do that. It was back to metal press tool that would be able to clamp around the mandrel.

Sounded simple at first, I can see it (except for the attachment to the pliers) but can't explain it. On the soldiering, he said said hard silver soldier and Handi flux. I think I'm going to have to go to double or triple sheets of more bendable brass and attach them together. That gets me out of the metal folding/bending and leaves me with how to soldier them together…but then again maybe that last bit is how I'll have to do it…soldier the layers together. I think I'll go work with a piece of paper to see if simple folds would work. I've figured out how to cut a wood block but would need to find a woodworker. It's alway something. I'll definitely take a picture and post if this ever comes to fruitition.

Thanks for the helps.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Above is desired end of the brass sheet. I did it in paper, note the four points up, and four points down. Also note that one side is the oppisite of the other in making a impression.

At the center of the paper/brass sheet would be a hole to accomodate a mandrel, and somehow I'd get the whole thing mounted on pliers (which now that I think about it, I'd mount and the cut the brass in half – saves mounting problems).

Whew. Wish I thought of how to explain this before.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

I'm really leaning toward thinner sheets of brass that I can hand bend and then layering those with some sort of soldier to hold in place.

Thanks for letting me think this out here, many of the suggestions have been 'DUH' realizations to me. I need a husband to tell 'go make this'

I'm adding this after I posted.  It just dawned on me that I could use a heavier gauge/thickness, cut into the necessary triangles and then soldier.  Hm.  That gives me the strength needed but the support could be a problem.  Back to clay supports…a jewelry instructor made his molds and supports out of the craft clay that hardens…Zimo, Fimo???

 

 

Edited By pj newt on 17/04/2013 23:25:50

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

In glass blowing for lab. ware

we used wooden moulds and or wet newspaper..never saw any brass ..

old scissors for cutting hot glass but that's about all..

wet wood does not stick to molten glass.like metal can especially when you don't want it to

 

Wood is simple and cheap to work…maybe even make "pliers" in wood..like tongs / tweasers

 

Edited By jason udall on 17/04/2013 23:43:13

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Cherry wood molds are the best/standand I understand. I lamp work there are a lot of small hand tools, that's were the brass comes in. I've seen what you are talking about and actually would love this to be on a bigger scale but at the same time…glad it isn't. Graphite is also used for these tools but I know less about that material than metal. I think the idea of soldiering triangles has caught me now, trying to figure out if I can get them precut at a metal supplier. I know my cuts would be crap.

Love that glass work. You must be in a bigger glass work faciality than I.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

My uploaded word picture is gone. I give up. It was so good for explaining things. Defintely worth a 1,000 words. Site must not like photos. I'll play around with the real photo and see if I can post that.

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

Whew, once again I,m whipped. You all should be sleep by now and I'm heading there.

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

I was wondering if you make the die surface from a suitable thin material, say .5mm Cu or SS, then invert it, suround it with a tube, then fill the butt end with a cement water mix/plaster of paris. . To give it some comppressive strength.

Frank

[pj newtParticipant @pjnewt58322]

I see what you're saying about reinforcing the mold strength, my idea would probably left wth a screwed up piece of metal and a destroyed forming mold. One of the artistic metal workers suggested using 1/8" copper which helped too. I was thinking too heavy on the tool itself and not heavy enough on the mold. In fact I could probably take a 2" piece of pipe, fill it as you said, and carve or impress (with Fimo clay molded to shape) and then press the metal in.

Wow! Thanks guys…I got a lot closer to were I should be. I knew you all knew about this.

Thanks for the patience shown in my quest. All that said, I probably misinterpreted over half of what you said. Frank, I'm pretty sure I did on you suggestion (the tool itself will be used to impress hot soft glass – not much resistance there , but it did lead to the next thought).

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