Boxford shaper & VFD

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Me again, needing more help/advise please.

This is my no.1 project. (the others will have to be patient)

The shaper came with a 380v 3-phase motor.

Don't have 3-phase, so will fit a new motor and run it off of the drilling machine VFD, but not at the same time of course.

Now, do I retain the existing pulley system with the countershaft, or not?

Getting the original motor out was a real real pain in the watsit, so not looking forward to the reverse procedure, as access is really tight.

It would be easier to design and make a new motor mount, rather than the grief of using the existing one. Maybe I had an off day when I removed the motor, but the experience has burned into the noggin.

Wouldn't the ease of speed control negate having to use the countershaft?

Any learned help appreciated.

Geoff – Back from dentist & mush numb.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

You'll still need the gearing down from the countershaft and pulleys – a more direct drive from a slowed down motor would not be able to provide anything like as much force behind the tool.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Whilst it may be cheaper to share the VFD, you may not be able to set it up for each motor's requirements, for a simple swap over.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

David,

%^*+# you have confirmed something that was nagging at the back of my mind about having to keep the countershaft. Oh well, I will need to psych myself up before diving in, but may have to resort to crowbar to move the machine to gain more access.

Kwil,

The motors are the same HP. If they where different, I realise that I would have to be carefull in not stalling/overloading the smaller one.

Will see how I get on switching before buying a separate VFD, unless a good one at reasonable price slaps me in the mush of course..

Must say that the VFDs on lathe and drilling machine have transformed both machines.

No doubt when I fit a DRO to the mill &/or lathe, I will wonder how I managed beforehand.

Thanks for the responses chaps.

Progress reports as and when will follow.

Geoff – That bright round thing is back in the sky!

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Need more help please.

Photos added.

Whilst clearing up around the shaper to make fitting new motor 'easier', I discovered a TEC motor I forgot I had.

The difference, however, between this one and the BMF motor is striking, but both are 3-phase 1/2 HP.

I'm surprised at such a difference in size & of course weight, so comments on its suitability please, when connected to the VFD..

The weight of the bare countershaft is 6kg, so using the TEC motor will make the c'shaft with motor 5kg lighter compared to using the BMF motor which incidentally fits existing bolt holes.

Now 5kg isn't back breaking, but it WILL make a big difference in getting the thing back in place.

Have experimented with a scissor jack, but without motor attached, and it should help.

As can be seen in the photos, I will need to drill & tap new mounting holes in the c'shaft motor base for the TEC motor, buo great shakes.

Should be finished & running this week, with luck of course.

regards,

Geoff – Video Light Box finished

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

High Geoff

I googped some of the less obvious plate markings.

Both are rated for continuous duty (S1 on the TEC). IC41 on the tec is frame cooling (i.e. no special arrangements, the BMF doesn't say. Neither motor says how many starts per hour. You might find the BMF, being bigger, is more tolerant of repeated start-stop cycles, though they are both designed to run all the time under load.

My understanding is the gentle starts of a VFD are less demanding of the motors than ordibnary starting anyway.

Neil

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Thanks Neil.

It's going to be somewhat easier to get the countershaft with lighter motor bolted into position.

Says he.

If the air turns blue in the process, then all will know that wasn't the case

Time to dismantle the countershaft to drill & tap new holes, as its too awkward with the pulleys in place.

At first look it appeared so, but better do a proper assessment first,

Will post more photos as I progress.

Geoff – That big bright thing's in the sky again!

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Well, after the usual side track for sorting domestic issues, I'm now ready to join battle in putting the motor and countershaft assembly back.

Before I tackle the job, however, I need advise please on belt tension.

The belt in question is an A29, with pulley dimensions of 210mm and 63mm ø

I measured the centre distance between the pulleys with old motor installed, and that was 169mm.

Now, the original motor had a 5/8" shaft whereas the new motor is 14mm, which meant a new pulley from a well known ME supplier – with the usual prompt delivery. Too lazy to make a sleeve.

I drilled & tapped new holes in the countershaft motor base for the new motor, but only drilled and did not slot the feet for adjustment. Will do that today.

Putting the new V-belt on with either old or new motor, has the belt very tight with no play at all.

It just feels too tight for my liking, but would appreciate expert advise please.

Oh, the motor starts to zing from about 675rpm up to maximum. Should I be worried?

I have taken the rotor out to check bearings, but they appear OK and feel smooth running.

Geoff – Sunshine didn't last.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The belt needs a little bit of slack, like if you poke it about half way between pullies with a finger, you should get perhaps 1/2" or so of flex, hows that for totally un scientific discription. You might need to put in some packing, or something like that. Your motor should come up to speed quite quickly. Ian S C

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Thanks Ian.

Your description of measuring the slack makes more since than some scientific equation that could, no doubt, be produced, and cause all sorts of confusion and miscalculation. I like it!

You have confirmed my initial thoughts about the belt being far too tight. It was so right that you could probably play a tune on it.

Will see how best to get that amount of play, as there isn't enough meat in the motor feet to form a long slot.

Oh well, back to the drilling machine.

A VFD motor on a drilling machine is something that I would not hesitate recommending, as is was so easy getting the speed perfect for drilling into the cast iron of the countershaft.

Geoff – Coffee time, then back to the workshop.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

No use putting any more load on the bearings than need be, as long as it does not slip under normal load it's ok, if you have a jamb up the belt should slip before anything important breaks. Ian S C

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Cannot quite believe it, but after getting the shaper mid 2006, I'm now ready to get the motor into position & switch on.

Both the drilling machine & shaper motors have been connected to the common VFD, machines operated one at a time through a selector switch, and tested.

Before I strain the muscles though, does anyone know which way either the 4-step pulley or motor should rotate please.

Geoff – Time to relax

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

A quick search has found this:

"When the ram is moving forward the slide block must be in the upper section of the yoke and when the ram moves backwards, the slide block must be in the lower section of the yoke."

Confirmation please.

Geoff – Still relaxing

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Another search found the Operators Handbook at:

http://www.neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Boxford%20Shaper/Boxford%208%20Inch%20Shaper.pdf

with the following info on motor rotation :-

"The motor and countershaft pulley should rotate in a clockwise direction when viewed through the drive compartment door."

Now to gird the loins for some heavy duty lifting in a confined space.

Geoff – Too relaxed to do the heavy lifting now

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Woohoo!

It's up & running (with reservation as I've detailed at end of post)

Photos added of the process of getting the motor & countershaft assembly installed.

I decided to use the BMF motor instead of the TEC one, as the bigger one has mounting feet with enough adjustment to get the correct belt tension. Using the TEC would have been a PITA getting it mounted so have put it aside for future use.

After much thought that included studying the the motor compartment as well as various ways of lifting the motor/countershaft assembly, I decided to make a sling to lift it up.

The shaper has very convenient lifting holes front & back, and passing the rope through the rear ones, suitable secured on the left hand side, brought it in front of the motor so that it took the weight on the motor platform, through the right hand hole, I was then able to heave the whole unit up high enough to get the pivot bolts into their respective slots, having secured the rope round the belt tension lever.

(Edit: Must remember to tighten the pivot bolt lock nuts!)

Couldn't quite believe how easy it turned out, after the obvious off day I was having taking it all out, but it does of course help understanding how it actually goes together in the first place.

I did think of using a scissor jack to help lift, but that was more hassle than worth.

Everything else connected up without a problem and time came to get it powered up, after oiling all parts required.

Then the hunt was on for the longer V-belt I had just purchased. Could I find it, could I heck. Lounge, office, carport & garage twice revealed nothing. Then I remembered a length of Twist&Lock belt that came with the lathe, and it was the perfect length, so on it went. Hooray.

Switched on, twiddled the pot and nothing! Nada. Not so much as a hint of moving!

After certain Anglo-Saxon words has been said, it was time to investigate.

Up till then, I had only moved the ram using arm power by way of a vice handle on the pulley drive.

I decided to loosen the gib adjustment screws and the machine was off and running.

I did a suitable jig whilst watching the ram move smoothly & freely after who knows how many years of inactivity.

Oil was then squirted at regular intervals along the dovetail on each side of the ram, with black gunge eventually being squeezed out to run down the front and rear.

I suppose I should have removed the ram to clean all the parts first, but didn't, as moving the ram by hand it felt quite free. I must have used more force than realized.

Eventually the dovetail oil became clear, and I let it run for about 15min to ease things.

This all took place on Saturday.

Another look for the errant V-belt on Sunday morning found it snuggled up against the compressor where I had no doubt pushed I out the way. I had, by then, ordered another! Oh we'll.

Today I decided to adjust the gib, & that's when things started to go wrong!

The bolt holding the Crank gear sliding block kept coming loose,

I had made the gib a tad too tight, so slackened the grub screws off once again.

This bolt is threaded all the way up to the head, with the threads that pass through the sleeve, on which the sliding block moves, having been crushed, which may have just happened, I don't know.

It looks original though, having a square head.

It really has to be pulled up tight, but has still worked loose a couple of times. There is a spring washer under the square head shoulder.

Any suggestions appreciated.

Geoff – Champing at the bit to start shaping. Still can't believe it's ready to do some work

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Three photos of the shaper in final trim added to Album.

Geoff – Need to sort tool bits.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Whoohoo!

Spanners completed, and working perfectly.

I used the shaper for the first time in anger today, to make the operating handle for the main drive shaft squared end, and finished the spanner for all the square bolts.

The shaper was used to cut a slot in the main drive shaft handle socket, to be able to weld the MS flat bar I was using as a lever, onto/into it.

The VFD made speed selection a doddle.

I really do need to improve on my stick welding ability.

Now I can commence with making new T-nut and bolt, needed to fit the QC to the Warco lathe.

Geoff – Relaxing with a good brew (coffee)

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Whoohoo!

Spanners completed, and working perfectly.

I used the shaper for the first time in anger today, to make the operating handle for the main drive shaft squared end, and finished the spanner for all the square bolts.

The shaper was used to cut a slot in the main drive shaft handle socket, to be able to weld the MS flat bar I was using as a lever, onto/into it.

The VFD made speed selection a doddle.

I really do need to improve on my stick welding ability.

Now I can commence with making new T-nut and bolt, needed to fit the QC to the Warco lathe.

Geoff – Relaxing with a good brew (coffee)

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Whoohoo!

Spanners completed, and working perfectly.

I used the shaper for the first time in anger today, to make the operating handle for the main drive shaft squared end, and finished the spanner for all the square bolts.

The shaper was used to cut a slot in the main drive shaft handle socket, to be able to weld the MS flat bar I was using as a lever, onto/into it.

The VFD made speed selection a doddle.

I really do need to improve on my stick welding ability.

Now I can commence with making new T-nut and bolt, needed to fit the QC to the Warco lathe.

Geoff – Relaxing with a good brew (coffee)

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Photos uploaded.

Geoff – Still relaxing.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Photos uploaded.

Geoff – Still relaxing.

[OuBallieParticipant @ouballie]

Photos uploaded.

Geoff – Still relaxing.

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