Boiler Testing

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Hi everyone my partner has a 4inch scale burrel and we're struggling to find somewhere to have the steam and hydraulic tests done. Our local club can do it but we're very new to all this and they want us to know a lot more than we do at the moment, so looking for somewhere to learn and somewhere that can maybe just test it for us and do all the pre tests near York. Any help gratefully received

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Looking for a boiler tester

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The book, The building and running of steam traction engines and roller models by H.R. Plastow, published by Bridport Foundry (Stuart Models) may be a good place to start ! If you are not from an engineering background then you have an awful lot to learn for your own safety and others. Operating a machine like that requires an understanding of many things, I'm surprised that the York club can't help you to learn – but it will take quite some time. If you are new to all this then I can understand their reluctance to do/ issue a certificate. A commercial boiler inspection is a possibility but will require you to prepare the engine for inspection and could involve much work and cost.. Good Luck. Noel.

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Thank you. We have that book, my partner has been around steam engines and agricultural machinery all his life, just not necessarily had to operate and maintain a traction engine, so he understands the principles and dangers just wanted help to know he's doing the right stuff. We just thought if there was somewhere else we could pay for lessons to further learn and ensure we have good practices in place.

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

And we need to know what to do to correctly prepare for the boiler test, as it isn't clear which holes need blocking etc to ensure we do all the pre tests correctly and make sure everything is as should be for the inspection.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

If there are any steam rallies near you or any place where there maybe miniature TE,s running go alone and talk to the drivers, you will gain knowledge and may find someone who can help you to be more hands on

H

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

OK, this may be granny and eggs if as you say, you have experience of steam engines but here goes;

You have 2 routes to getting your boiler tested, the club route (which you obviously know about) and the commercial route. However both have pretty well the same requirements in terms of basic history of the boiler which so far you haven’t mentioned.

Let’s assume (dangerous) this isn’t a new boiler? Also given it’s a 4” that it is steel? If it is not new then hopefully you have at least the most recent expired certificates? That is good because it evidences the boiler has been tested before and you will know if it was done by a club or by a commercial independent inspector? Ideally if you have that information you will also know if the boiler was commercially made or made by an individual. In both cases hopefully you have a portfolio of information about the boiler like material certificates, welder certification and initial shell test?

If it’s a new boiler that has not been previously tested and you have no evidence of material certificates for the plate and tubes and evidence of welder qualification for the person putting it together or an initial shell test, you might be on a sticky wicket! If you have no information you need to look at the boiler to see if there is a manufacturers plate and boiler number. If you can identify who made it then you can contact them and hope they can provide duplicates of the basic information.

The first step is to examine the information you have and let that guide you on the way forward, if you have history of club tests, great you will probably find your local club will take it on. If it has been previously commercially tested then your best bet may be to continue down that route. If you have no or limited history you may find a commercial tester is more suited to guide you. Whichever route you choose the first step is to discuss it with the chosen inspector and present any evidence of previous tests / constructional detail you have.

In terms of preparing for the test itself, when was it last hydraulically tested? If it was a commercial test that would have been valid for 10 years and to revalidate the inspector will likely require removal of the cladding (thin sheet cover and lagging beneath that runs from firebox to smokebox). If it was a club test then unless the last test was for a new boiler it will have been valid for 2 years – if the boiler is 10 years old or more and you can’t demonstrate the cladding has been removed in recent history a club will likely require its removal also.

The hydraulic test will be a thorough cold examination perhaps involving taking ultrasonic thickness readings in various places, inspection of all threads in boiler bushes (fusible plug thread will be of interest) and possibly putting a camera inside to visually check for corrosion. All the boiler wash out plugs, manhole door, clack valves and other fittings should be removed for inspection. Once this is completed the plugs, fittings and doors are fitted, minus the pressure gauge and safety valve (you will need a blanking plate for the safety valve or if they are screwed in which is unlikely on a Burrell, plugs) which should be blanked off and the inspectors gauge and pump will be connected, the boiler filled with water expelling all air and pumped up to 1.5 times working pressure. If the regulator doesn’t seal you will need to blank that off too.

Assuming that is satisfactory the boiler will then be steamed to ensure the water gauge, safety valve(s) pump and injectors are all functional and if so – you get your certificate.

While the comments above and the line taken by your local club are understandable it is worthy of note that the boiler test is to test the boiler, not the competence of the operator. Neither a commercial inspector or a club inspector will take the engine from you, test and return, they will expect you to present the boiler ready for inspection and then put it back together and steam it up. If you don’t have the knowledge / competence to do this then there are several commercial companies around that may assist for a price and also offer you some basic training.

Try Legacy Vehicles, Berrybrook Steam, The Steam Workshop, John Rex Models to see if they can help? Caveat I have no personal knowledge of any of these suggested companies or association with them so these are not recommendations, merely suggestions for you to research.

Final point is for a club to test your boiler you have to be a member. Most clubs are wary of people coming along asking for boiler tests unless they have a good feeling you are interested in joining and will contribute to club events. If that is not you, go the commercial route. Final final technicality is you can’t have one test (hydraulic or steam) on one scheme and the other on the other scheme. So you need to choose which route you go at the start and stick with it.

Hope that helps.

Paul.

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Hi Paul,

That is a massive help, it is some stuff we techically already knew but some you;ve highlighted bits we hadn't cnsidered, sorry i'm playing admin assistant for my partner trying to help him find what he needs while he is away with work.

Let me start again.

We bout the 4 inch model from Berrybrook in 209 literally just before the pandemic.

We have all the paper work from the original build, including the boiler plate, however if memory serves the original boiler maker doesn't seem to exist any more.

We bought the engine tested and passed by Berrybrook but with the pandemic unfortunately we let the boiler test slide which was our fault, no quibble there, where we thought we could take it to get done suddenly turned round and said not they only want to sell machines etc hence the quest continues.

We know it has all passed once before and my partner as slowly and meticulously taken the cladding off and dismantled the bits he think he needs to follow the process of doing a water pressure test (or whatever the correct terminology is) which serves as a kind of pre test, however what is not clear is what parts of the engine he needs to block up to ensure it is correctly sealed etc for the test (I think that is the way of putting it).

We know the pressure gauge is safe to 300psi, the working pressure is 125psi.

What we really need help finding is a commercial tester close to York and that's where we are getting flummoxed.

Ideally someone who could walk us through the testing process too which would then allow in future maybe for the club to do it etc. My partner bought the engine in good working order so that he could learn all the maintanence on it and how to correctly and safely operate it before one day graduating on to building one in an ideal world.

We've tried Berrybrook and they said John Rex, however we have to join the South Yorkshire Club for him to help us, I haven't tried the other place you mention so I'll give them a shot.

We're really trying to track down a commercial tester and almost maintenenace school of some description.

Thank you so much for your detailed reply, it is really helpful and very much appreciated, and hopefully now I;ve made myself a bit clearer.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

MSRVS give a bit of a guide about testing here

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

You could try John Glaze link

Steam boiler inspection https://johnglaze.co.uk/

H

[Les RileyParticipant @lesriley75593]

If you are doing nothing this coming weekend (19, 20th August) have a ride down to the Lincoln steam rally and talk to some of the miniature owners there.

We will be there with Maud, our 4" McLaren.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Elizabeth,

Ok that’s all good, now the situation is clear it’s easier. You could also try contacting Peter from Hawkins Inspection Services. He is based in the South but travels all over.

Paul.

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Posted by Les Riley on 14/08/2023 11:19:44:

If you are doing nothing this coming weekend (19, 20th August) have a ride down to the Lincoln steam rally and talk to some of the miniature owners there.

We will be there with Maud, our 4" McLaren.

THANK YOU LES, my partner was at Lincoln today and hunted high and low for you and then saw you just as he was leaving steaming the other way so never got to say hi, maybe we can see you at another rally?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Obtain a copy of the latest edition of the Model Engineering Liaison Group boiler testing handbook. Their cover colours are changed at each revision and the present one has a white cover with orange lettering.

This has been prepared by both national federations of model-engineering societies and several other groups of parallel interest, and in conjunction with the regulators and insurance trade.

It is not the most coherent of manuals, but once you've teased out the sections relevant to your engine, study those to see what a boiler inspection carried out by an MELG-affiliated club entails – or should entail.

You can then also perform a preliminary test to – never above – its instructions to ensure readiness for the certifying test itself. You can't of course, certify your own boiler.

I outline the test itself below.

.

Regarding reluctance, you may have found is a club worried if your interest is joining simply to have the engine tested; and this has happened a few times in my own. While it's not compulsory to do so most clubs in any activity do like new members to play a part beyond just paying the subscription. However, one thing a model-engineering society may not do is charge for boiler testing. The owner needs to become a fully paid-up member, but the tests should be free as part of the normal services to members.

Also all club boiler-testers are volunteers bearing a heavy responsibility and they are free to decline a boiler if unhappy with it for some reason, including doubt of the boiler's provenance or built privately to some unusual design. There is allowance for consulting another club whose own boiler testers may have more appropriate experience. In you case, with a commercially-built boiler of known design and documents, this problem should not arise.

..

On the technical side, the test under the MELG scheme is in two parts. The documents create an awkward repeat dates step but provided you don't let the thing lapse, I can't see any reason the future dates can't be scheduled to allow both parts in one session, with the club boiler-tester's agreement.

By the Clubs' MELG system:

The first is a cold hydraulic test to ensure structural integrity and lack of leaks. The odd slight weep through a valve is annoying but not important.

You need remove the engine's own pressure-gauge and blank its fitting: the club's test-kit will have its own, traceably-calibrated gauge of range perhaps twice the likely maximum it will encounter. It is worthwhile having the engine gauge tested against the club one – without digging my book out I forget if it's called for, though some boiler-testers might want to do that anyway.

Remove the safety-valves and blank their mountings. Or make and fit clamps to hold them shut. Don't try to emulate that by screwing them down! It is bad for them ….. and you might forget.

The rest of the fittings should be left on. They are part of the "pressure system".

The one awkward thing is the regulator. It should seal closed but that is not always certain, and would be indicated by water eventually emerging from the cylinder drain-cocks. This could mean a worn or scored valve face, or the valve sticking on its operating-rod; so needing some attention.

This is the sort of case where your preparatory test even just to working pressure is valuable, showing things that may make the official test difficult. Oh, and boiler testers do like the firebox, tubes and smokebox to have been swept out.

.

The second part of the test if the hydraulic test is successful, is the steam [accumulation] test.

The engine is refitted to running order with its own pressure-gauge, steam raised and the gauge-glass and water feed arrangements verified operable. On a traction-engine these are normally a single injector and crankshaft-driven pump. Some miniature engines are also fitted with an emergency hand-pump.

The safety-valves are also observed to ensure they open at the working-pressure marked on the gauge, plus a small margin. This is usually shown by a line on the dial and should be there on your engine, but if not, and the gauge cannot be opened without wrecking it, an external mark is permissible. The safety-valves must also hold the pressure steady even at maximum steaming-rate: damper open and blower hard on, forcing the boiler somewhat beyond normal operation.

All being well you can then let the engine calm down (or take it for a drive around the site!) while the friendly local inspector doggedly completes one of the most confusing forms ever devised for an essentially simple task.

There are two forms. One is the test certificate. The other is what is called the Written Scheme of Examination (WSE sometimes colloquially pronounced "The Wussy" ). It summaries the "Pressure System" and identifies its ownership. It is unchanged while you own the engine and make no significant changes to its boiler. You will anyway need a new copy to identify you as the new owner, if you don't have that already. The boiler inspector will sort that out with you.

 

Finally, Happy Steaming!

 

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 20/08/2023 20:15:00

[Elizabeth WaddletonParticipant @elizabethwaddleton29651]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 20/08/2023 20:12:48:

Obtain a copy of the latest edition of the Model Engineering Liaison Group boiler testing handbook. Their cover colours are changed at each revision and the present one has a white cover with orange lettering.

This has been prepared by both national federations of model-engineering societies and several other groups of parallel interest, and in conjunction with the regulators and insurance trade.

It is not the most coherent of manuals, but once you've teased out the sections relevant to your engine, study those to see what a boiler inspection carried out by an MELG-affiliated club entails – or should entail.

You can then also perform a preliminary test to – never above – its instructions to ensure readiness for the certifying test itself. You can't of course, certify your own boiler.

I outline the test itself below.

.

Regarding reluctance, you may have found is a club worried if your interest is joining simply to have the engine tested; and this has happened a few times in my own. While it's not compulsory to do so most clubs in any activity do like new members to play a part beyond just paying the subscription. However, one thing a model-engineering society may not do is charge for boiler testing. The owner needs to become a fully paid-up member, but the tests should be free as part of the normal services to members.

Also all club boiler-testers are volunteers bearing a heavy responsibility and they are free to decline a boiler if unhappy with it for some reason, including doubt of the boiler's provenance or built privately to some unusual design. There is allowance for consulting another club whose own boiler testers may have more appropriate experience. In you case, with a commercially-built boiler of known design and documents, this problem should not arise.

..

On the technical side, the test under the MELG scheme is in two parts. The documents create an awkward repeat dates step but provided you don't let the thing lapse, I can't see any reason the future dates can't be scheduled to allow both parts in one session, with the club boiler-tester's agreement.

By the Clubs' MELG system:

The first is a cold hydraulic test to ensure structural integrity and lack of leaks. The odd slight weep through a valve is annoying but not important.

You need remove the engine's own pressure-gauge and blank its fitting: the club's test-kit will have its own, traceably-calibrated gauge of range perhaps twice the likely maximum it will encounter. It is worthwhile having the engine gauge tested against the club one – without digging my book out I forget if it's called for, though some boiler-testers might want to do that anyway.

Remove the safety-valves and blank their mountings. Or make and fit clamps to hold them shut. Don't try to emulate that by screwing them down! It is bad for them ….. and you might forget.

The rest of the fittings should be left on. They are part of the "pressure system".

The one awkward thing is the regulator. It should seal closed but that is not always certain, and would be indicated by water eventually emerging from the cylinder drain-cocks. This could mean a worn or scored valve face, or the valve sticking on its operating-rod; so needing some attention.

This is the sort of case where your preparatory test even just to working pressure is valuable, showing things that may make the official test difficult. Oh, and boiler testers do like the firebox, tubes and smokebox to have been swept out.

.

The second part of the test if the hydraulic test is successful, is the steam [accumulation] test.

The engine is refitted to running order with its own pressure-gauge, steam raised and the gauge-glass and water feed arrangements verified operable. On a traction-engine these are normally a single injector and crankshaft-driven pump. Some miniature engines are also fitted with an emergency hand-pump.

The safety-valves are also observed to ensure they open at the working-pressure marked on the gauge, plus a small margin. This is usually shown by a line on the dial and should be there on your engine, but if not, and the gauge cannot be opened without wrecking it, an external mark is permissible. The safety-valves must also hold the pressure steady even at maximum steaming-rate: damper open and blower hard on, forcing the boiler somewhat beyond normal operation.

All being well you can then let the engine calm down (or take it for a drive around the site!) while the friendly local inspector doggedly completes one of the most confusing forms ever devised for an essentially simple task.

There are two forms. One is the test certificate. The other is what is called the Written Scheme of Examination (WSE sometimes colloquially pronounced "The Wussy" ). It summaries the "Pressure System" and identifies its ownership. It is unchanged while you own the engine and make no significant changes to its boiler. You will anyway need a new copy to identify you as the new owner, if you don't have that already. The boiler inspector will sort that out with you.

Finally, Happy Steaming!

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 20/08/2023 20:15:00

Hi Nigel, thank you so much. I will share that and see if it helps.

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