Boiler number

[Robert Smith 24Participant @robertsmith24]

I have a 3 inch scale Fowler R3 showman's engine. it has current certificates but try as I might, I cannot find where the boiler number is stamped.

Can anyone help with possible locations please?

[Robert Smith 24Participant @robertsmith24]

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

It would depend on who made the boiler, but it was probably obvious and legible to them… until someone went and built a road-locomotive around it.

First and easiest places to look are around the cylinder-mounting, and the boiler crown in the depths below the crankshaft. Some makers fit an ID plate in the latter position.

The numbers might be stamped along the topmost back or front edge of the outer firebox, though there it could be obscured by the plate-work.

Other likely positions are around the top of the backhead itself, possibly hidden by the superstructure and fittings. Along the bottom edge of the backhead deep below the man-stand – so possibly obscured by the water-tank. Or the bottom edge of the throat-plate – possibly obscured by the steering-gear or ashpan assemblies.

Just possibly, on the front or back inner-firebox walls if these protrude below the foundation-ring: not good practice as they would be hidden by the ashpan at least, on the complete engine.

The stampings would not, or ought not, be on single-thickness plate regions but on the outside of flanged or welded seams, including the foundation-ring. So I'd use those as a guide if the first two places don't yield anything.

If nowhere there, we start thinking of awkward places like the area of the smoke-box, and hope whoever numbered the boiler did think not to place it where the horn-plates would cover it.

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If these don't bear fruit…

Was the boiler commercially made? If so and the company still exists, try asking them. They might use their own standard locations.

Another source you could ask, if you are not already a member anyway, is the Model Road Steam Vehicle Society. Their members between them own such a range of engines it's quite possible someone will know more definitely where it is on yours, at least for a professionally-built boiler. (Tell 'em a member suggested it!) Though still be aware that different boiler-makers have their own sites for the I.D.

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I am not sure if it's asked for on any of the increasingly convoluted MELG paperwork, but the location of the number ought be noted on the individual boiler's documents somewhere. A good place would be on the Written Scheme of Examination, as that lists the boiler's test details. .

[Robert Smith 24Participant @robertsmith24]

Nigel,

Thank you for a very comprehensive reply. The boiler is a John Ellis item and although I know he keeps meticulous records, I cannot find any contact details for him. Maybe he is sadly no longer with us?

Having said that, from the paperwork I have it seems the number may well have been stamped by the White Rose Model Road Vehicle Society acting under the unbrella of the NAME back in 2000 as the recorded number on the paperwork starts N63 which is/was their issuing society number. I can find no reference to that group either, so maybe they do not exist anymore. perhaps someone will tell me otherwise.

Anyhow, when I next get the engine out into daylight, I will have another good search bearing in mind your post.

Thanks again.

Robert

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Glad to help – let's hope daylight brings results!

Ah – now you've mentioned NAME we have a glimmer of hope. Have you contacted that? Hopefully it might find your engine on its boiler-test records, but I don't know how far back they go or how it operated in 2000.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bottom edge of the backhead is quite common but often hard to see once the tender is fitted

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

As you have current certs try asking the last person that inspected it? Hopefully they verified the number of the boiler they were inspecting, so on that basis they would know where it was stamped?

Paul.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Robert –

I have just looked on NAME (http://www.name-1.org) , and White Rose does not appear in its club list. (The "other" Rose does!) So you are probably right that the club has steamed off into the sunset.

Even if NAME still has copies of your boiler's history I doubt it could help with your enquiry because its interest is in that the boiler is numbered and matches the documents, not where it is numbered.

Jason –

That location is one I have in mind for Robert's engine, and as you say, not the best place on a traction-engine boiler.

My wagon's boiler's number is along the foundation ring, in similar style to yours but facing forwards on the cylindrical firebox. That makes it reasonably accessible, but this thread reminds me to be careful not to hide it under the cladding or ashpan.

.

On the general point –

I know from traction-engines in my own club that some boiler-makers put the ID plate on the firebox top, reasonably discreet thanks to the crankshaft and plate-work, but still sufficiently visible to the boiler-tester. The bottom of the throat-plate is another possibility but might be hidden by the steering-shaft. A welded/brazed on plate just above the shaft would not be very noticeable in normal viewing.

On a railway locomotive the hem of the back-head is usually visible by lifting the footplate out. It's still not the easiest place for legible stampings unless the loco can be inspected with its tail above the end of a raised steaming-bay or lift. (A setting that helps the test itself anyway, of course.) On some locos it could be on the top, rear edge of the outer firebox, with any cladding trim-strip usually hiding it, made easily detachable for inspection.

It is difficult, trying to put a lot of information on a structure so it is accessible but does not spoil the overall appearance. Nevertheless I think this is something that ought be addressed; and if nothing else it would help future owners and inspectors to record the number's location on the paperwork – the WSE would be appropriate.

[vic francisParticipant @vicfrancis]

Hi Robert ,White rose was a club in the leeds area, as mentioned above,operated around 1984, looked to have a road vehicle bias to its members, found some refs vol 154 3742. I have a Sent you a message!

regards vic

[Robert Smith 24Participant @robertsmith24]

Many thanks to all who have responded. What a great forum this is. I have not yet had another chance to get the engine out in the daylight but I will search again bearing in mind all the comments.

Nigel, the last date of test carried out by the White Rose club was in 2004 so they do seem to have dropped the fire for the final time.

The current test was by a company called Full Steam Ahead but I can find no contact details for them. They have a small page on Facebook, but again, no contact details.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Have you managed to find the number on the engine?

[Robert Smith 24Participant @robertsmith24]

Hi Nigel,

Thank you, yes I did find it where suggested over the foundation ring on the backhead. An absolute pain to find and read. I never knew I could bend my neck in such a shape!

It seems to be an odd place to stamp the number when boiler inspectors are expected to check it. The obvious place for most traction engines must surely be over the foundation ring on the throatplate. Maybe there is a reason?

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