Boiler Marking/serial number

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Are there any guidelines as to where a boiler mark should be placed, format of the mark (serial number) and size of the mark. If number/letter stamps are used, could these induce unwanted stresses in the boiler?
I was thinking of placing the mark on the bottom of the backhead , but once the footplate was installed, you wouldn't be able to see the mark!
As for the format, I was thinking of including our postcode, or are serial numbers issued by the inspectors?
BobH

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Where and what format for boiler marking

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Usually a commercial one would have some letters to indicate maker, date and working pressure plus CE mark. Often found on the bottom edge of the backhead where the foundation ring gives plenty of support.

Some have more than others, this is my Western Steam one.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

WOW – that is some serial number -17 characters ?
BobH

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Serial numbers are allocated by your clubs boiler inspector. The number consists of an identifying number which relates to your club and a serial number which is sequential to the boilers inspected by your club. For instance 999/14 999 being your club and 14 being the 14th boiler inspected. (if 999 is a real club I apologise) So a boiler can always be traced back to its origin.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

It is not necessary to stamp the club number – the club info is on the boiler certificate. The 'ID' on the boiler must match the boiler cert, plus the working pressure and date is added of first hydraulic test. Other additions are optional.

On a new boiler (or any copper boiler) there is no reason why the stamping should cause any problems. Most of my 'details of stamping' are also below cab level. Funny how many boiler instectors dont have a set of stamps with them for the first test!

Cheers,

Julian

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Hello Julian,

Re, Funny how many boiler inspectors don't have a set of stamps with them for the first test! Boiler inspectors should not have any involvement other than to examine the construction of the boiler, witness any testing and record that process and the inspectors findings. The stamping of any identifying marks must remain the responability of the manufacturer or builder.

Ideally in the case of non commercially constructed boilers the serial number of the written scheme document, that being the commencement of an audit trail, should be incorporated in the stamped identification together with the designed maximum working pressure; personally I like to stamp the backplate before fitting to the boiler, the idea of stamping the boiler after completion in it's relatively soft state worries me.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Bob,

I dont disagree with you! But I have a number of times had boiler inspectors state 'ok, I will mark this down on the paperwork as 'JMA 5' etc but we need to stamp the boiler. So I say I havent got my stamps with me – have you?!

Easily resolved, as I do have a set of stamps at home, but it is funny at the time.

Cheers,

Julian

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi All,
I have seen a copper boiler marked by its builder with, I think, his postcode. Not small stamps but very large characters cut into the surface under where lagging + cleading will cover it.
John

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

If you are going to make any indentations into the boiler fabric I would have thought the best place would be on the firebox wrapper along the foundation ring. Just saying.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Brian,
I agree with your comments, particularly using stamps (bashing) on a finished boiler . Probably best to do it on flat sheet if building your own.
However, the boiler that I referred to above was engraved (no bashing) on the barrel and said boiler made by loco. builder who is very experienced.
John

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Julian I am afraid I disagree with you. The Club No does need to be on the boiler. It is of course on the paperwork associated with the boiler but as I understand it the boiler can be traced without the paperwork being present, such as when the boiler is sold on and the paperwork is missing. Without the club identifier being present the number has no meaning at all other that the fact that at some time it was tested.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Dusty, clubs come and some go. What legislation is in place for a clubs record to be passed on and to where would it be passed on. I can't see that a club reference has any real standing on the boiler number.
BobH

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Speedy Builder Boiler inspection under the Model Engineering Clubs Federations have a Boiler registrar. Each Club is given a number which is peculiar to that club. When a boiler is examined under the scheme a copy of the record is passed to the registrar a copy is also retained by the clubs boiler inspector. In this way each boiler inspected under the scheme has an audit trail which can be accessed if and when the owners paperwork relating to that boiler has gone missing. Thereby the number says which Clubs boiler inspector examined the boiler and what sequential number he gave the examined boiler. If your Club is not affiliated to either the Northern or Southern Federations the numbering is of no consequence..

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

re my previous posting two bits of important information I left out.

First the Club Number is allocated by whichever Federation your Club is affiliated to

Second All subsequent tests i.e. 4 yearly hydraulic test and annual steam test are also recorded.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

how does a non Uk CE marked boiler enter the system ? And dare I say what would happen to CE marks if UK leaves the EC ???
BobH

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

As I understand it any commercially made boiler wherever it was made would need to undergo testing in the same way that a home constructed boiler would. The only difference being that commercially made boilers would not undergo the inspection during construction. I venture to suggest that nothing would alter regarding CE marks, they are after all as I understand it saying I have tested this and its O.K. or a form of self certification. I may be corrected on that though. Most clubs will accept a commercially made boiler certificate provided it complies with the relevant regulations. In order to enter the system it will be required to undergo pressure testing to twice working pressure.

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

Just a side point, boilers made for steamboats do not require to be CE marked.

[Brian OldfordParticipant @brianoldford70365]

Is that 'cos they are likely to be further away from folks if they go bang?

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Does a CE mark really mean anything? At least one non-EU country exports a lot of dodgy goods to the UK which catch fire or are painted with lead based paint, e.g., so why would they worry about an illegal CE mark if it only acts as a selling aid..?
I suggest that I and any other model engineer could very easily stamp a boiler with home made forgery CE marks, if so inclined.

Edited By DMB on 07/06/2016 22:11:37

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Dusty,

My boiler certificates have the audit trail. The ID stamped on the boiler is on the certificates. The certificates have the club number reference etc. There is no requirement to have this stamped on the boiler though I appreciate some clubs may think this a good idea.

The only reason why the club number etc needs to be stamped on the boiler is if the certificates were lost.

Cheers,

Julian

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by michael cole on 07/06/2016 20:35:14:

Just a side point, boilers made for steamboats do not require to be CE marked.

Michael, I can't find such an exemption mentioned in the Pressure Equipment Regulations – unless you are referring to boilers of less than 2 litres volume, which fall into SEP. Could you please clarify?

[Brian Baker 2Participant @brianbaker2]

Greetings, Pressure vessels for ships, and steam launches are deemed to be ships, are exempt from PVR "CE" marking requirements.

Regards

Brian

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Ah – thanks, exception 14. I didn't spot the connection.

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

Julian That is exactly my point, if the certificates are in existence then no problem but when they go missing any number has to have a significance. This is not a problem for the original owner but if subsequent owners want to track back without those certificates JMA5 means nothing, however 999/14 is traceable a call to The Registrar will show For instance Central London Model Engineers, the trail has been found. The system is not entirely for the original owners benefit but subsequent owners.

Edited By Dusty on 08/06/2016 08:27:17

[Author]

Posts