Bigger Lathe

[Peter Simpson 1Participant @petersimpson1]

I have Myford super 7 in my workshop which is great for most jobs, I have the space with a little bit of rejigging for another slightly bigger lathe. I have considered a Myford 254 but these seem quite few and far between and a little bit expensive.

Boxford appear to do a small lathe but these look quite like many of the warco et all Chinese clones. Could anybody suggest a suitable sized lathe. I would prefer it to be of British pedigree, costing no more that say £2500.

Peter

[Peter Simpson 1Participant @petersimpson1]

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Peter,

if you can afford a new Boxford I believe you will get a good lathe. A used Boxford (or other "old english iron&quot in good condition would be cheaper and should serve you well.

Thor

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The newer Boxfords do indeed follow the 'import' styling but were at least finished in the UK to better standards, However your budget is easily into the Harrison M300 or Colchester camp provided you have the room. Alternatively look at a Boxford AUD that can be found in vgc and is a nice mid point between a dinky little Myford and a 12in lathe that might be pointlessly bigger than you need.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Harrison M250 or M300.You will never look back.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 01/02/2014 20:47:40

[mike mcdermidParticipant @mikemcdermid41977]

We have a boxford st280

in fact we are selling our old one and its going in the classifieds cheap but that's not why i posted

We looked at a chinese crusader or something along those lines and thought do you know it will get us by however ,went and looked at the chesters and they just seemed naff once you got past the fact your looking at a new machine and its shiny!!!

niggly little fit and finish things kind of creep into your mind so we did actually buy a used 280 which looked tatty but turned fine

We actually thought there was something wrong with it recentley (tho old one ) however it seems as carbide tips wear they take more force to cut and hence changing the tip it was back to turning to 1/2 a thou over 8 inches but by then the decision had been made to get new

they are bombproof little machines and you can get every spare from boxford

A little known fact when i was at 600 in hecky the guy who designed the M300 went to boxfords where the X10 lathes( thats the newer boxfords) were born

which is why whilst it cost more to do we bought a new one from them ,purely based on the fact that the old one has never missed a beat the only niggle i have is as the crosslide nut wears it rocks in its mounting which is easily fixed

you show me a Harrison m300 that is less than a grand and isn't flogged to death unless you are one of the lucky school finders

the old machine we had thoughts of getting it reground and painted back to new spec boxford quoted 3k just to paint the thing and check it Brian caddy 700 quid to put the thing back to factory,we were going to do this but dont have the time ,but it would still be a far better machine than any import

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Early 300's are fine but the later once have headstock problems. The gear clusters are not machined as one but separate gears weld to shafts.

One of my customers who repairs woodworking machines for a living buys every cheap one he can get just to rob them and built one out of three.

He has no trouble selling them when done but he must have about 12 scattered round his place, all in bits. Schools ones aren't always good. A lot get neglected as opposed to misused. One problem with schools machines is the screw cutting boxes, they never keep them full of oil and then they rust and seize up.

Don't get me wrong in good condition they are a fine machine but there are some clunkers out there, don't just let the name sway you.

I'd have an early good one in a heartbeat but then again I'd sooner have a TOS.

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

Peter,

Whilst it would be unfair to say don't waste your money on a 254 (someone would no doubt buy it off you at a similar price) I think you could do better for that kind of money. Whilst the Myford name is still in existence I would not be too confident of obtaining spares like you can for an ML7 variant.

Firstly Boxfords, the AUD is a step up from the ML7 but is not in the same league as D1-3 & other camlock equipped machines. The 280 and similar variants are still manufactured and supported by Boxford in the UK and should not be compared with Chinese units. They offer a cheaper option to Colchesters & Harrisons. It's worth studying lathes.co.uk to understand the differences in the variants wrt gearboxes.

Next up are Colchesters – Chipmaster & Bantam and Harrison M250 & M300 accessories and spares for these can be pricey. Another nice line of machines is Gate but you don,t see them for sale very often.

In my view it would be better to buy less capable machine in good condition than the reverse and allow a good chunk of you budget for chucks, steadies etc.

[Norman LortonParticipant @normanlorton75928]

Hi Peter

I have used a Myford 7B for a while and recently added a Harrison 140. The Harrison does all the larger metal and castings and the Myford all the tiny bits in brass. Extravagant perhaps but hey what is a hobby?

Good suggestions above on the Boxfords and M250/M300. I considered lathes like the Craftsman and geared head Warcos but like you inclined to old British. I am very happy with the 140, it is a lovely machine with the VFD motor added. Nice M300s are nearer to £3,000 and I have read comment on the Harrison Yahoo website of some M300 users wishing they had their 140 back. Having said that, I would be very happy with a M300.

The 140 is the 1970s final incarnation of the L5 and then 11" series. They have metric dials and nearly all have metric gearboxes; one alternative gear set will give you all the imperial pitches. As well as 11" (140mm) swing they have a gap bed for 18" swing. If you find a nice one ensure it has all the (slightly expensive) extras. The problem for us home machinists is moving them as they weigh 750Kg, but if you have a 2 ton engine crane and can put them on a pallet, the pallets can be moved quite a way by freight companies for £80.

Have fun planning and looking. PM me if you want to ask more about the 140.

Norm.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

This is an interesting debate, all the more so since my brother is currently looking for a replacement for his Clark mini lathe. He has been considering a Myford.

How about the Colchester Bantam? These seem to come up for sale every so often and usually for less than £1000. Part of the problem though is I think availability of the accessories or spares for these older British machines we all covet.

Re the problem of moving these heavy beasts. I bought myself a pallet truck and a 2 ton folding engine crane a few years ago. I don't use them very often but they are there for when or if I need them. The last outing was a few months back when I helped get my parent's Rayburn in place.

[Old SchoolParticipant @oldschool]

Peter

Good luck in your quest I wanted to upgrade from my Raglan Little John to something of a similar size I looked at the options from the far east but not for me and second hand UK machines. The bigger machines I could not get into the workshop. I eventually paid more than I planned and bought a Myford 254 a friend has had one since new and it is used for both commercial and hobby use and he has had no problems at all with it. To date I am very pleased with the machine it was a good decision as it does everything I ask of it and the accuracy is in a different league to the Little John.

Oliver

[mickypeeParticipant @mickypee]

I bought my Harrison M300 about 5 years ago and use it all the time for all sorts of jobs. My little Myford is still used but no where near as much before the Harrison. I spent a few pennies replacing any damaged or worn components and it is a joy to use. Mine is a three phase unit but you could easily swap the motor for a single phase one if you don't have three phase in your workshop. The parts are expensive if you buy them from 600 but to be honest how often does anything break? I only put new bits on my lathe because I'm completely ocd and everything has to be perfect, but I'm glad I did.

Once you have purchased one, you will never need anything thing else, should last you a lifetime. I know some folks have said that there have been headstock issues but in a ME workshop I doubt you will ever have trouble. The only thing that has ever gone wrong with it was I broke a roll pin on the spindle that drives the cross feed. I made a new pin and it was up and running in no time.

In summary, great machine

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

First off this is not in support of Chinese imports, in fact it's not in support of any make or model at all.

 

But and a big BUT why do all the proponents of buying old British assume they are perfect and better than say a new import [ see opening note ]

If you are on the Myford Boxford scale then chances are there are some good machines to buy but once you get up to M250 / Harrison 140's chances are they are ex industry who don't care two hoots as long as it makes money.

 

I have worked on enough industry based Colchester's to know that I would never touch one with a barge pole.

 

I had a ML7 here as part of a job lot and god knows what it was used for but I have never seen a more clapped out machine. The leadscrew looked like it has whitworth threads on it, they were vee shaped, the bed was that worn on the sides that it wouldn't go back to the tailstock end and at the chuck you could swing it about 5 degrees either way.

 

But hey it's a MYFORD.

 

There are good and bad in both camps but you need to take the rose tinted glasses off and get the bi-focals back on.

Edited By John Stevenson on 02/02/2014 12:53:30

[mike mcdermidParticipant @mikemcdermid41977]

you could look on it for f 2-3k yoiu can kill a chinese machine in industry then buy another one next year

as it will have made its money ,for those odd jobs we dont cnc it costs 120 quid for half a day for our local turner i think is ok tbh but its nicer just to have the capacity to turn some bits as one offs without interrupting money makeing jobs on CNC machines

for a hobby am i really ever going to need an M300 or a chester crusader sized machine? i dont know but some then turn into the odd job man round the corner and do indeed need more machine

it almost becomes a classic car mentality restoring machines and slapping some pain ton..<—-yes i did mean to writ it like that

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Agree with mickypee, my M250 is far more than capable of handling anything I may put it's way. John also has a point, Far Eastern doesn't always mean bad but you have to shop around I think. I expect that most home workshops would not test these machines too much.

I work on an offshore oil construction/engineering ship, and it is probably the ultimate proving ground for tools of every type. If it lasts on there then you can say that for normal use it is pretty much nuclear hardened.

The engine room onboard has a mid sized Warco lathe and an Axminster (Chinese) mill drill. The Warco lathe is absolutely clapped out. Bits fall off it when you go to use it, and everything is slack beyond any adjustment. The mill drill is just about usable.

Meanwhile, in the deck/construction workshop there is an Excel XL440. It gets a lot more use and abuse than the engine room Warco, with all manner of things being done in and on it. It is absolutely rock solid.

I agree with John re the Myfords, they are the subject of a lot of snobbery and elitism. I don't think they are up to much at all. I am astonished at the prices they fetch.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 02/02/2014 13:27:58:

Meanwhile, in the deck/construction workshop there is an Excel XL440. It gets a lot more use and abuse than the engine room Warco, with all manner of things being done in and on it. It is absolutely rock solid.

That Excel XL440 is actually a TOS but made in Bulgeria, I have a XL 380 model, bought new 15 years ago and so far has broken a roll pin in the clutch lever, a roll pin in the feed lever and welded a contactor shut but that wasn't the lathes fault, we had a power cut and not all the phases went out at once [ they dug the cable up down the road ]

This is a daily use lathe in a small jobbing and repair shop and it probably sees as much use as 10 modelengineers lifetimes.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Hi,

I didn't know that about the Excel. It is a very good machine indeed. Built like a tank.

[Oompa LumpaParticipant @oompalumpa34302]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 02/02/2014 13:55:40:

Hi,

I didn't know that about the Excel. It is a very good machine indeed. Built like a tank.

That is the communist influence you see

anyhow, i sent you a note Peter as I have a friend selling a Boxford ME10 which is in excellent condition complete with a lot (you won't need anything) of tooling and all the bells and whistles – VFD by tesla and the clutch extra and so on. I will put you in touch if you are interested.

graham.

[Peter Simpson 1Participant @petersimpson1]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for all of the replies. My preference at the moment would be a nice Boxford 280 size lathe, I'm not sure of the weight or the ease of stripping these down to transport the lathe off a pallet in to my workshop. The access to the workshop is gravel paths from the road side to the workshop. I stripped my lathe, milling machine and shaping machine to make this awkward process easier.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

I have worked on enough industry based Colchester's to know that I would never touch one with a barge pole.

Another typical sweeping statement without clarification from JS.

I have worked with Colchester lathes of all types all my working life and if treated as they deserve they are second to none.

[ian cableParticipant @iancable23486]

hi basically you get what you pay for, i think most model engineers would be hard pushed to ware out any lathe be it far east ,European or british .I think its like a coat , something of a personel choice its what takes your fancy in a hobby not a nessisity like in industry,i have owned both ,my personel preference is a 40 year old chipmaster because its so solid and repetedly accurate but one mans meat is another mans poison so, best advice is go a see as many as you can before you buy

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Lambton,

Worked on, not with, as in maintenance of the same. Aprons that are sealed at the bottom but not the top so any decent flood cooling fills the apron up over a period of time and then turns to water, then rusty water then those nice little needle bearing that run direct on the hardened gear shaft that they are so proud of, rust away and pit.

End result is you are faced with a bill for parts in excess of £1,800 [ no typo ] to repair the apron.

[LambtonParticipant @lambton]

John,

Thanks for the examination.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Worked on, not with, as in maintenance of the same. Aprons that are sealed at the bottom but not the top so any decent flood cooling fills the apron up over a period of time and then turns to water, then rusty water then those nice little needle bearing that run direct on the hardened gear shaft that they are so proud of, rust away and pit.

Sounds a bit like the original Wankels with the oil drain plug in the wrong place

Some dude sorted the issue by drilling tapping and plugging the lowest point in the sump so it could be drained properly

edit:

stick a teeny magnet onto the new plug and that gathers any stray bits of metal

Edited By Ady1 on 03/02/2014 10:56:48

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I first learned to turn on a Colchester Student and my old Myford S7 felt really flimsy by comparison when I first got it. So I'd really like a big, heavy lathe – but the key word there is "heavy".

I purchased a McMaster hacksaw recently (that needs a lot of TLC) and even unbolting & dissembling all the parts off it that I could, I still nearly 'did' my back getting just the base out of the car boot and into the wheelbarrow for its trip to the 'Shed'. The same guy selling it had a nice, floor standing mill but I'm clearly well past the stage where I want the hassle of moving very large lumps of iron across someone's lawns and down gravel paths (etc.) and I'm frankly too tight to pay someone else to do it for me.

I used to build 3.5" N/G engines but decided on weight (and cost grounds) to go to a smaller gauge, so I don't really need very large machinery for that – although they would be useful for restoration work on my collection of vintage machinery (e.g. keeping the scrap metal I proudly call my "Workshop" running)

So I am more than a little jealous of those who have these larger machines but unfortunately the word "downsizing" seems to be getting used more frequently in my household these days and I have to (try to) be realistic I'm afraid.

IanT

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