Beyond Tich- a Haine StPierre 0-4-0 2ft gauge loco to model

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Well, that is certainly a Walschaerts gear on the Flicker picture, even if one of the rods is missing you can see where it goes. Since Egide Walschaert was a Belgian, that seems a reasonable thing to find on a Begian loco.

 

The Joy gear is a perfectly good setup, the only real problem is the extra weight and loads in the middle of the connecting rod, which has been known to cause failures. On the other hand, I have heard of gear failures with other forms of valve gear too.

 

regards

john

[Howard JonesParticipant @howardjones35282]

I went back out to the WA Rail Preservation Society museum to see if I could catch Bob Thornton again but no such luck.

The Peak Hill mine history mentions a new loco being imported from
england in 1901. I dont know if the Haine St Pierre was the one but this
opens the possibility that it had been in use in england and was bought
second hand. maybe a photo exists of it in england??

it is interesting that the history account differs from the government boiler history record.

Bob could we obtain a copy of the photo of the loco that you mentioned?

btw I appreciate you taking the time to hunt out the details. thanks.

 

Dave, sorry didnt realise the query was from you, I was looking through my notes on the second last night in Meekatharra and, as you did, saw that the wheel flange was huge. I thought I’d made an error as well. it measures as 42mm taken from one end of the flat of the tread and 50mm if taken from the tread at very inside of the wheel (roughly). 

 

…I’m still on the hunt for more details. there just must be photos of it working out there.

 

[Bob ThorntonParticipant @bobthornton11506]

 Posted by Howard Jones on 03/10/2010 13:16:25:

……Bob could we obtain a copy of the photo of the loco that you mentioned?

btw I appreciate you taking the time to hunt out the details. thanks……

Adrian is concerned about copyright  issues and was seeking clarification from the source, no news so far.  With a bit of luck we’ll get to see the image soon.

 

cheers,

Bob

[Bob ThorntonParticipant @bobthornton11506]

G’day,

 

a little poking about at http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y has provided a number of news reports including –

 

“Western Mail 17 Mar 1899 & The West Australian 14 Mar 1899
….a tramway 70 chains long of 2ft gauge has been provided, and is in course of construction. Along this the ore will be conveyed in trucks drawn by a small locomotive…..the battery….is driven by a powerful compound horizontal condensing engine, the steam being generated by two large steel Cornish boilers…..

Kalgoorlie Western Argus 13 Nov 1900
….Messrs Burns, Philp & Co are forwarding….a pair of tubular boilers and one locomotive boilers….

Sydney Morning Herald 9 May 1905

….a double tramway has been laid from ore-bin to new cyanide vats….with tramways over and underneath….”

cheers,

Bob

[Howard JonesParticipant @howardjones35282]

I have come across an explanation of the concentric cone chimney as fitted to this loco.

the explanation is in “the locomotive magazine” for january 1899.

 

” A Novel Exhaust Pipe

An improved blast pipe has been invented by a New South Wales railway man. Three concentric cones of increasing diameter are placed one above the other, in a globular

vacuum chamber, and into the bottom of this, immediately under the cones, the two exhaust openings from the cylinders are bought.

It is contended that the blast from either one of the cylinders exhausts the chamber, and so relieves the back pressure on the other piston; in other words the exhaust from each stroke is drawn into a partial vacuum before being ejected up the chimney.

We shall be glad to see how this works in practise.”

 

that to me is a perfect description of the chimney modification on the little Haine St Pierre.

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

Shades of M. Chapelon and his ‘Kylchap exhaust’. My analysis of it the Kylchap is exactly similar to yours. I wish we had more details of this triple cone device!

[Howard JonesParticipant @howardjones35282]

Richard you can work out the details from the photos.

The outer of the chimney stack is rolled from approx 2mm sheet.

the dimensions are on the front view sketch.

on the Haine St Pierre there are two remaining cones which I forgot to measure but they can be scaled off one of the photos. they end at about the widest point of the outer chimney.

you would think that if they went to the trouble of using it on this loco the concept must have worked well enough to be useful.

 

… the research continues.

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Howard  – Thanks I will try to do some analysys later this month and simulate what is going on in the stack.  If you think M. Chapelon had to do all his work whith log tables and a guessing stick (slide rule). I can if i need write code to simulate the thing in about 1/2 of that time.

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

 

I have looks at this little Belgian Locomotive with interest and am working on trying to simulate the triple flue. 

I was searching for Hungarian Locomotives (gőzmozdony in Hungarian).  In my rummaging for Brotan Deffner boilers which I wanted for something else I am working on, I came across these two little beauties, You can find the originals in Wikipedia but some of the others seemed to been designed by Emmet after a ‘night on the tiles’

They both seem to  have a type of Brotan Deffner boilers which is a sub varient of the Yarrrow See ‘A practical approach to boiler making’[i] Mr Holland

---

[i] Model Engineer Vol 205 No 4389 – 22^nd October – 4^th November 2010

Edited By Richard Parsons on 27/11/2010 10:35:17

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Thank you but not the one it has a very unusual smoke box and chimney

Bob

[JC Uknz 1Participant @jcuknz1]

I'd guess the 'restoration' or 'preparation for display ' involved removing the brake standard shown in the Belgium photo?

She is a cute little loco, almost a model herself. Now if only she had slip-eccentric I could be interested

Edited By JC Uknz 1 on 03/12/2012 07:58:02

[Dieter BlieckParticipant @dieterblieck64469]

Hallo ik heb een haine saint pierre locomotive, hij staat bij mij thuis in België. Wat wilt u weten. En kunt u uw informatie doorsturen. Ik ben hem momenteel aan het restaureren. Vriendelijke groeten Dieter

Mod Edit

"Hi I have a haine saint pierre locomotive, it is at my home in Belgium. What do you want to know. And you can forward your information. I am currently restoring it. Kind regards Dieter"

Edited By JasonB on 25/06/2021 06:53:53

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

The rail museum in Treigne ( Trois Vallee site ) may have some information too.

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