Beware Bought Lathe tools.

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

Ouch! Triumph Stag gone too

What caused it Terry?

[1Participant @1]

Terry

You seem to have come under a lot of fire for attempting to draw the attention of newbies such as I to possible shortcomings in products from the cheaper end of the scale. I for one have noted this particular pitfall and may well profit from your lesson. Thank you for posting. Nuff said?

Jim

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Actually Paul,

it was two Triumph Stags . I was just about to install a newly reconditioned engine into the 2nd beastie. It was just outside the garage door as you need a very high lift and at 9ft high not even my garage was high enough. If you look at the picture in my last posting, you can see a 24ft long beam with a pile of masonry. The Bradstone masonry was built on top of the beam in a style I like to think of as 'Fred Dibnah'. That fell on to the front of the car from a height of 9ft +. Here it is leaving It was pristine before the fire. The canvas roof was new, but bleached from the fire and torn where masonry had fallen through. Here goes (to the tune of 'She's Leaving Home' by the fab four):

 

Note the carbon inside the screen due to the fire travelling under the car and starting the carpets and upholstery to smoulder. The loss adjuster said there was no evidence of fire inside the vehicle.

It was thought to have been caused by an electrical fault, and it had been a very hot day

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 14/10/2012 17:07:15

[_Paul_Participant @_paul_]

Terry that must be devastating is it salvageable?

Regards

Paul

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by _Paul_ on 15/10/2012 00:14:28:

Terry that must be devastating is it salvageable?

Regards

Paul

No, the insurance company insisted it was removed as it had been involved in a fire. It is probably now containing dog food on supermarket shelves.

Regards

Terry

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

So which thread form uses 82 degrees ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Terryd on 15/10/2012 07:36:15:

 

No, the insurance company insisted it was removed as it had been involved in a fire. It is probably now containing dog food on supermarket shelves.

Regards

Terry

Or being used to make turning tools

 

As JS said PG thread uses 80deg angle, thats the thread used on electrical conduit which being thin walled does not want a deep thread

This tool could also explain why so much of the imported tooling uses poor quality Whitworth fixings if thats what they are using to cut them

 

J

Edited By JasonB on 17/10/2012 08:47:18

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks to the references to PG thread, I am a little wiser.

Wikipedia came up trumps again.

MichaelG.

[colin hawesParticipant @colinhawes85982]

For beginners to machine shop engineering on a minimum budget: It is rarely cost effective or necessary to use tipped tools. The only time a model engineer can justify the cost of carbide tooling (including re-sharpening problems) is for machining cast iron when it is most desirable due to its ability to cut through hard spots and at a higher speed. A little persistant practice will soon allow you to hand grind HSS tools from standard blanks. As a matter of interest I find that one of those thin cutting discs for angle grinders saves a lot of time if a big piece of your prospective tool needs chopping off .Frequent cooling in water is needed for shaping HSS tools. Colin

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Richard, I know grinding lathe tools is a basic skill to learn as I have been doing it for 40 plus years! You are missing the point in that the OP paid for and wanted a screw cutting form tool and thats not what he got. For a beginner that is a serious issue, it's just not acceptable to buy a form tool which isn't to the correct form. I also agree that carbide is a bit OTT for home workshop screw cutting and you can buy HSS screw cutting tools from the usual suppliers ready ground hopefully to the right angle.

Tony

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Tiger Tanks will never be the same now I now "panzer" is pronounced "pants-zer"

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Update,

I have now exchanged the tool without quibble and am very satisfied, and show the correct tool below.

A few points though,

my original post was intended as a warning to beginners to double check that they had received what they ordered as mistakes are made. I ordered a 55º tool but received one at 82º.

I did not complain about the quality, that was done by other posters.

To those who said I could grind up a tool yes, but without my grinding rest it is difficult to be absolutely accurate. I am well practised in HSS grinding (started at 16 as an apprentice, I am now 65) and will continue to do so, but cannot guarantee accuracy and this job needs accuracy.

To those who think tipped tooling is OTT, I bought a tipped tool as it was for a one off job and the tool was cheaper than a ready ground HSS one. i.e. £4.45 as opposed to around £8.70 for an HSS equivalent (actually £17.40 for a combined external/internal set).

I will not need to 'touch up' the tool as it appears very accurate.

I am satisfied.

Best regards

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 18/10/2012 09:54:40

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Bit of a sideways question arising from looking at the picture above .

Tipped tooling both brazed and inserted tip types come ground to the correct angle but only rarely to the correct tip radius for a particular job .

What do most people do – regrind the tips or just use as supplied ????

Michael Williams .

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 18/10/2012 10:13:31

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Relying wholly on the Chinese for quality control is not a good idea, they are very different from the Japanese about these things

The Japanese and the Polynesians are the only people in the world who think with the opposite side of the brain, it's something to do with a language high in verbs

It looks like Manganese bronze may have paid the ultimate price for outsourcing to China, they were already struggling

**LINK**

The Original TX series was bits from Nissan etc in Japan and is amazingly reliable

500,000 miles is normal for a TX1, many have now done more than this on the original engine

The newer TX4 has sourced bits from all over the place, the last I heard they used a converted Chrysler marine diesel. (That was the one which caught fire)

The South Korean and Malaysian stuff seems to be quite reliable but a lot of it is made using licensed technology and systems from Japan

So it's very much a case of Caveat Emptor (buyer beware)

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It's not just mechanical stuff, electronic stuff from china seems to be a wing and a prayer as well

We've seen various problems with PCBs in here

I got a couple of cheapo compressors for car tyres from Tesco (tenner a pop)

They were fine to start with but both went tits up within 60 days because of electrical failure and I only used them for a few minutes once a week

 

My computer mainboard has been made in China by Intel and is great

So it depends very much upon who is in charge of quality control when something comes out of China. Ordering something then sitting back and and relying upon them to do it all on their own is a very high risk strategy

Edited By Ady1 on 18/10/2012 11:20:36

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Terry,

Glad you got satisfaction from your supplier, but not surprised as, when presented with the evidence, most reputable traders would exchange faulty goods and I hope that all traders at the show are reputable. I wonder if we will now see the market flooded with "special" Vee tools?

Out of curiosity what pitch BS thread you are cutting?

chriStephens

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Chris,

It is a BSF thread, 1 1/2" od 8tpi for some attachments to allow me to mount my boxford chucks on a rotary table and perhaps other circumstances. It's really just an exercise as I.ve never cut such a relatively coarse thread this large a diameter. I've often cut both internal and external threads up to ,around 2" dia but usually fine threads 60 for instruments and tools.

I could buy a Boxford nose for not very much, but that's no challenge is it? By the way, I never expected anything other than proper treatment from a reputable source.

Best regards

Terry

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 17/10/2012 22:04:01:

Tiger Tanks will never be the same now I now "panzer" is pronounced "pants-zer"

Neil

Hi Neil,

I suppose that it is appropriate being a German tank as they pronounce z as ts Hence Mozart and Liebniz etc.

Best regards

Terry

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Language is strange. I find Germal impenetrable but French relatively easy. My daughter enjoys German and can't make head nor tail of French.

Neil

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Neil,

I've never tried Germal , but I do speak reasonable French, however Chinglish has me all conflabulated,

Regards

T

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Terryd on 19/10/2012 23:11:19:

Hi Neil,

I've never tried Germal ,

T

Is that what Gerbels speak ?

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Any language where the definite article has three genders, a plural, and four cases has to be considered weird IMO. And don't get me started on compound verbs and word order!

David

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by John Stevenson on 20/10/2012 00:49:17:

Posted by Terryd on 19/10/2012 23:11:19:

Hi Neil,

I've never tried Germal ,

T

Is that what Gerbels speak ?

No idea John, but it's What Neil is having problems with

T

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