Best way to remember Mill movements when turning hand wheels

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Hi Guys,

Is there any easy to remember way of knowing if I turn the respective hand wheels on a Mill's X, Y & Z axis the stock moves right or left or the Z axis goes up or down etc.

It is all to easy to turn a wheel the wrong way. If there is any thing fine else I will just make a table to glance at should I have a senior moment.

Chris

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Put arrows on the table indicating the direction of handwheel rotation and table movement.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I try to remember clockwise moves the vice away from me.

Edited By Vic on 16/09/2020 21:31:15

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Practice, practice, practice. Then some more practice!  'til it becomes second nature.  If it's any consolation, I don't "practice" what I preach and often have to think about it!

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 16/09/2020 19:17:09

[SandgrounderParticipant @sandgrounder]

I just think that turming it clockwise is like screwing a screw in with a screwdriver, it goes in away from you.

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi Chris TickTock,

I am right handed and using my right hand, turning X axis wheel @ RH end of table clockwise, table moves forward away from RH extremity or if you like, from Right to Left. Likewise, Y axis wheel turned clockwise makes table move away from me towards body of mill. My mill has a fixed Z axis spindle because it has a rise and fall knee with the operating handle below the table and to the right of the knee. Again, winding wheel clockwise makes the table rise up, which seems to be quite natural. Just like "Sandgrounder" said, above and as John Hinkley above said, practice. Good luck, happy metal butchering!

John

[Dave SParticipant @daves59043]

It becomes second nature after a period.

Im not sure right now (at work) which way turning does what, but I know if I’m stood in front of my machines I can “just” use them.

This became very obvious when I bought a cheap x-y table to make a cutter grinder.
The cheap table had RH threads on both axis. It only took a couple of oops moments for me to change the Y one to LH to match all proper mills…

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Dave S on 17/09/2020 07:55:43:

.
It becomes second nature after a period.

[…]

.

This reminds me of a ‘classic’ problem in Ergonomics …

I forget the exact details of the disaster, but basically a ship was in trouble and a drain-cock needed to be urgently closed … but the seaman reverted to instinct, and ‘turned it down’ as one would with an amplifier knob.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/09/2020 08:12:04

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Some unfortunate souls have more trouble with this than others – I'm one – but the answer is practice. Physical skill like learning to reverse a car. Milling machines are my bete noir because I'm not good at thinking up/down, right/left and forward/back at the same time. I'm not afraid to draw arrows on machines as a reminder!

DRO's are wonderful on milling machines, a truly 'must have' accessory. One of many benefits is their ability to quickly show small movements in the wrong direction because the display changes more obviously than a dial. And my tiny mind deals better with numbers increasing and decreasing than remembering how jobs are oriented relative to dial readings.

No help at all, but the next logical step is CNC. Although very stupid, computers don't make human mistakes like forgetting which way they're going, messing up mental arithmetic, or miscounting dial turns.

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I don't have a problem of which way the the table moves with respect to the turning of the handles, but there has been odd moments to which way I have to move the table and have to stop and think for a moment, seems strange, but hey, none of us are infallible.

Regards Nick.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Using two handles at once to try and follow a curve is fun

Mike

[MacolmParticipant @macolm]

My first lathe has a mix of feed directions, and no, I never had confidence which. The solution was to inscribe arrows beside the hand wheels as follows;-

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 17/09/2020 08:09:56:

I forget the exact details of the disaster, but basically a ship was in trouble and a drain-cock needed to be urgently closed … but the seaman reverted to instinct, and ‘turned it down’ as one would with an amplifier knob.

During the tunneling for the first Severn tunnel it flooded. A flood door was not closed so a diver was sent down to close it – a very very remarkable feat in the 19th century. However though he closed the door enabling the workings to be pumped out he opened instead of closed a drain valve associated with the door making the job a bit more difficult.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 17/09/2020 08:09:56:

Posted by Dave S on 17/09/2020 07:55:43:

.
It becomes second nature after a period.

[…]

.

This reminds me of a ‘classic’ problem in Ergonomics …

I forget the exact details of the disaster, but basically a ship was in trouble and a drain-cock needed to be urgently closed … but the seaman reverted to instinct, and ‘turned it down’ as one would with an amplifier knob.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 17/09/2020 08:12:04

I guess that guy never washed his hands after using the loo, because natural instinct for a water tap is to turn it off clockwise.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

If you remember the adage.. 'Righty tighty.. lefty loosey for nuts, screws etc; how about .. 'right- to you, left- to to me' in regard to mill table & vice moveable jaw… ref. to a couple of tv brothers.. .

George.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The problem is that although most mills move consistently across all three handwheels, there are certainly exceptions, often the Z axis.

So to be on the safe side first try all the axes and see if they move in the same sense.

If so, make one sign, if not, make three…

Neil

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Practice will make it second nature, I said as I tried to move the Y axis with the wheel on the rotary table.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

The clockwise / anti-clockwise thing always defeated me at exactly the most disastrous moment!

What works for me is to think in terms of work movement under the tool. Bit like the right hand – left hand lathe tool thing.

I knwo which way to turn the handles to pass the work under the tool from left to right or front to back bot whether its clockwise of anti-clockwise I couldn't tell you without standing at the machine and twiddling. Makes no difference whether I'm using left or right table handle on the Bridgeport. Things go the way I was expecting.

Seems to me that thinking about which way to turn the handle is an extra step in the learning.

Clive

[Chris TickTockParticipant @christicktock]

Posted by Clive Foster on 17/09/2020 18:08:36:

The clockwise / anti-clockwise thing always defeated me at exactly the most disastrous moment!

What works for me is to think in terms of work movement under the tool. Bit like the right hand – left hand lathe tool thing.

Clive

I like this Clive, thanks and thanks to all for posting

Chris

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Pete Rimmer on 17/09/2020 14:44:32:

I guess that guy never washed his hands after using the loo, because natural instinct for a water tap is to turn it off clockwise.

.

Allegedly … in times of emergency, the more common instinct is to turn something off [or down] in an anticlockwise direction, regardless of its actual function.

I’m pretty sure it was documented by KFH Murrell … if I can find the reference I will post it.

MichaelG.

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

FWIW my mill has a RH screw for the X (which moves with the table) and LH for the Y (which does not), so turning the handle always moves the part the same way a bolt would screw in and out if you were turning a bolt instead of a handle. I suspect that the majority of milling machines will be the same.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I have just found a paper from 2010 which may be of interest to some: **LINK**

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/49636213_Movement_compatibility_for_frontal_controls_with_displays_located_in_four_cardinal_orientations

Here’s the introductory paragraph:

[quote]
1. Introduction
Displays and controls are essential and critical elements in every human–machine system. Unfortunately, many display and control relationships are not well understood and are not as clearly or consistently defined as they should be for safe and efficient operation. If a population has strong expectations about what will happen to a particular display when they operate a particular control, the expected relationship between the control movement and its effect is known as a direction-of-motion stereotype and such a relationship is said to be compatible (Fitts 1951, Fitts and Seeger 1953). Using display-control relationships that do not conform to the movement compatibility principles involves longer training time and poor performance and can result in mishaps and accidents (Murrell 1965, Courtney 1988, 1994a).
[/quote]
.

I don’t think it takes a great leap of imagination to interpret the little Sherline Mill as a ‘display’ in the context of that analysis, so I recommend it as background reading.

… Make of it what you will

MichaelG.

[Paul FallertParticipant @paulfallert28101]

Here is an old technique for operating a mill, following the above suggestions and taming backlash for the X axis.

Starting with the RH (right handwheel), turn it CW (clockwise) and move the table sufficient distance to take up the backlash. Lock the table when you reach where you want your X-axis zero.. Set your handwheel index to zero. Now coming from the left side, move to the LH (left side) handwheel (x-axis table lock still tightened). Turn the LH handwheel CW until it takes up the backlash. Set the LH handwheel index to zero.

Unlock the table lock.

You can now get back to zero when moving from the right, so long as you move from the right with the right side handwheel. Same concept when approaching from the left using the LH handwheel. Just don't reset the index settings. This takes some unlearning or a locking screw on the index wheel (which explains one reason why some machines use a thumbscrew instead of just friction for the index)

You can check your settings with a DTI/or dial indicator or a fixed pointer, by measuring against a block on the table or vise. To verify, fix the precision block (1-2-3?) at your zero point. Move the table (with its clamped block) toward the DTI and zero the DTI at your index dial zero line. Repeat the move and see how close you get.

Since you have a precision block, you can check the other handwheel index coming from the opposite direction (plus/minus the width/thickness of the block). Some ops tape or quick clamp a vertical piece of precise thickness to the edge of the block to measure against from the opposite direction.

If you forget and change an index dial, you can go to the opposite wheel and go back to your original zero point.

A solution for keeping track of "turns" is to use a magnet-equipped ruler. Position the ruler under a fixed pointer when you are at your zero set point (established as above). To move 100mm, you can make your move and watch the pointer vs the ruler. When you get close to your goal, you use the readings on the index dial. Moves from the right, use the right wheel. Moves from the left use the left wheel.

GHT and others suggest all moves should measure from the same starting (zero point), to reduce accumulated errors. Takes some practice to change bad habits.

Old school tech used a movable ruler locked on the front/side of the table, with a fixed pointer pointing at the ruler. Using a magnet equipped ruler is an update of this concept AND the magnetic ruler can be used anywhere, X, Y or Z axis.

Improvements or clarifications welcomed.

Paul

Edited By Paul Fallert on 18/09/2020 15:54:08

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

It will all depend on the construction of the particular machine.

If the Handwheel is attached to the Table, and is at the Right Hand end of the machine, clockwise rotation will move the table to the Left. (As if you were screwing a bolt into a fixed nut. )

To achieve the same effect if the nut is fixed to the Table, and the Handwjheel to the machine base, you need a Left Hand thread on the Leadscrew to move then table to the Left.

My mill has the Handwheel attached to the Table, so uses a Right Hand thread Leadscrew. for the X axis.

Then cross Slide on my Lathe has the Handwheel fixed to the Saddle, and the nut fixed to the Cross Slide so uses a Left Hand thread on the Leadscrew to produce forward movement (AWAY from me ) for Clockwise rotation of the Handwheel. As does the Handwheel for the Y axis on the Mill.

Confusing aint'it?

Howard

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