Beginners start here in Model Engineer

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

As you say, the trouble of writing an article is knowing what level to set it at. However, you seem to have fallen into the trap of most writers by introducing a technical term and assuming the reader is familiar with it. I refer to the “wobbler”, a term I had not come across till I read ME. even though I have been in engineering for over 30 years. So, how did I find the edge without one?, by using a half inch ground dowel and a cigarette paper.  Lightly trap the paper between the dowel and the work piece then move the table half the diameter of the dowel + the thickness of the paper. A dowel and a packet of cigarette papers is a lot cheaper than purchasing a Wobbler.

With regards the setting out of the holes in the base plate, a more logical order would be A B C D L I J K then G E F H as with would reduce the amount of to-ing and fro-ing  from the datum origins but then it’s each to their own.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

We all started with a dowel.

Yes, your sequence would work but I was trying to use the example for all work, not a particular individual part.

regards david

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

David – you’d better write your article, and then include a short glossary at the end!(Which takes up “building” space)

 

The fact is you have to assume some technical knowledge, otherwise, reductio ad absurdam, you start by telling people to open the package or whatever. Also of course, one persons beginner is different from some one else’s, so it is almost impossible to get it 100% right..

 

Perhaps for those who have a difficulty with any of the technical terms we could have a forum, and then anyone who needs to know can ask and one can make reference to it in the header for the article.   

Edited By meyrick griffith-jones on 19/11/2009 18:05:32

[Paul BoscottParticipant @paulboscott25817]

Elated then a bit subdued

A once in a lifetime accolade(I think)

On the front of the latest Model Engineer No 4365 a picture of my engine also in the show guide two of my other engines but acknowledgement that they are my work is sadly missing from any of the text.

To take this thread right back to its first posting.

The Stuart D10 on the front cover of the latest Model Engineer No 4365 was made entirely using only a lathe (10″ Atlas), pillar drill (Meddings 1/2″), files and wet&dry.
I have put some of the pictures I took at the time in my album.

First the plinth bottom this was first filed flat then with a bit of 120 wet and dry resting on a 6″ square piece of shop window glass rubbed in a figure of 8 till it was touching all around next clamped to the faceplate and faced of to size

The same procedure for the bed with the addition of filing the recess for the bearings.

The trunks, I cleaned up the top flange with a file then held it in a 3 jaw chuck with a piece of brass from the tailstock into the filed up trunk to stop it spinning out see picture D10-1 the feet were the faced very slowly to size and flat. Next using the flat feet the trunk was bolted to the faceplate clocked see picture D10-2. The top was faced off to the correct height measuring from the faceplate surface see picture D10-3. The trunk bore was the turned in the same setup see picture D10-4.

The cylinders were turned using a 4-jaw chuck clocking the inside of the cleaned up bore and the valve face turned with the cylinder clamped on to the faceplate using two pieces of steel angle.

Pictures D10topjig and D10bottomjig show a single jig that fits in to the cylinder, trunk and on the other side fits the step on the head.The felt pen marks are for the trunk / bottom cylinder

It is good if you can get is so that it fits any way around but if you mark the jig and the sides of the cylinder even if your jig is out the hole paten will be in the same place on both parts.

I made the this one with eight head studs to try and give the impression of a larger engine to a smaller scale

The three bearings were cut drilled reamed and numbered then the holding holes were marked out and drilled to the tapping size put on to a piece of silver steel stock bar and using toolmakers clamps offered into position on the bed plate the holes in the bed plate were drilled through the holes in the bearings.

I also made the blow down taps and pipefittings from stock brass bar see pictures starting Tap.

See you tube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAI1daFh1dg whilst there you could look at some of my other engines.

On viewing the photos the thumbnails are cropped but if you double click on then you can see the full frame.

Paul Boscott

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Chris on 18/11/2009 19:17:35:

.

Many starters who are younger than myself will have had no metalwork at school as the health and safety lot got rid of machine tools from schools about 20 years ago

 

 

I taught metalwork in school until around 10 years ago an can assure you that there are still some schools which have retained some machinery such as milling machines and lathes for student use even now.  In fact on a temporary contract two years ago (I’ve been retired for several years now) I was teaching youngsters how to use Boxford lathes and milling machines for their projects. We also had simple CNC millers and lathes, again Boxford.

 

The abandonment of school metalwork had nothing at all to do with “the health and safety lot” I can assure you.  Stop blaming them for everything.  There are two main reasons why it was abandoned. 

 

Firstly because of a National Curriculum (and the subsequent examination syllabuses), insisted on by a certain M Thatcher, that stifled practical subjects because she saw no need for manufacturing industry in a ‘Service Economy’.  and Secondly because of the lack of sufficiently skilled and knowledgeable teachers, due to fundamental changes in training methods.  I and many of my teaching colleagues were ex engineers who retrained, when we retired there was simply no-one to replace us.  Nothing to do with H&S.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Chris on 18/11/2009 19:17:35:

.

Many starters who are younger than myself will have had no metalwork at school as the health and safety lot got rid of machine tools from schools about 20 years ago

 

 

I taught metalwork in school until around 10 years ago an can assure you that there are still some schools which have retained some machinery such as milling machines and lathes for student use even now.  In fact on a temporary contract two years ago (I’ve been retired for several years now) I was teaching youngsters how to use Boxford lathes and milling machines for their projects. We also had simple CNC millers and lathes, again Boxford.

 

The abandonment of school metalwork had nothing at all to do with “the health and safety lot” I can assure you.  Stop blaming them for everything.  There are two main reasons why it was abandoned. 

 

Firstly because of a National Curriculum (and the subsequent examination syllabuses), insisted on by a certain M Thatcher, that stifled practical subjects because she saw no need for manufacturing industry in a ‘Service Economy’.  and Secondly because of the lack of sufficiently skilled and knowledgeable teachers, due to fundamental changes in training methods.  I and many of my teaching colleagues were ex engineers who retrained, when we retired there was simply no-one to replace us.  Nothing to do with H&S.

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

oops, Sorry about the double posting,

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Don’t worry Terence,some times you’v got to hit things twice,thats a skill of engineering knowing where to hit and how hard!Did’nt think it was down to H&S.My metalwork teachers here in NZ were like yourself retrained engineers/mechanics.Ian s c

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by meyrick griffith-jones on 19/11/2009 18:04:57:

 

Perhaps for those who have a difficulty with any of the technical terms we could have a forum, and then anyone who needs to know can ask and one can make reference to it in the header for the article.   

 Sorry Meyrick but did you not notice the title of this thread.  This is the place for such questions surely?

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Posted by Eric Cox on 19/11/2009 11:50:26:

 Lightly trap the paper between the dowel and the work piece then move the table half the diameter of the dowel + the thickness of the paper. A dowel and a packet of cigarette papers is a lot cheaper than purchasing a Wobbler.

 A centre finding ‘wobbler’ or sticky pin, can be as simple as a lump of plasticine or Blu-Tak stuck to the machine with a small pin embedded in it even cheaper than a pack of cigarette papers and dowel.  See Mr G Thomas’ book for a full description of how his foreman used to do it, a fascinating read.  ‘Workshop Techniques is available for loan from most libraries, and if not it should be, have a stern word with your librarian!

[BaldricParticipant @baldric]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 17/11/2009 10:28:01:

Hi There

I have received a phone call from a reader saying the Beginners’ page in Model Engineer concerning the Stuart 10H and 10V is to advanced for the beginner.
What do other members think? Am I making it too technical?

He thinks I should not be using a mill as beginners don’t have one.

 

regards David

 

 

Since this thread started I have not seen any further articles in Model Engineer about it, are they going to continue as they seem to stop part way through.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi there

After several complaints I dropped the series.

Harold Hall is redoing it from scratch especially

for the beginner.

regards David

 

[DoddyParticipant @doddy]

As a newbie to model engineering I’m currently making a Stuart 10H and also have the “score” to have a go at, some parts have been easy and others I’m totally lost with…but feel free to added to or ask on my forum link…
http://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=36350

we can struggle together and all learn from each other to keep the hobby going and more importantly the skills of engineering alive

[Dave Jones 1Participant @davejones1]

I think the problem is how basic do you make the articles? If you are new to model engineering and have no previous knowledge at all then you may struggle with the article.  I had to teach myself all of the basic techniques and used a good book I found from a second hand bookshop from the 1930’s that cost me about a fiver! (hand techniques dont change that much) These days with the internet, if you need to find out more about a specific technique there is usually a website that covers it. 

 

After about 4 months background reading on basic techniques I managed to make a Stuart 10V (that works!) using the book building a vertical steam engine from castings.

 

On the subject of wobblers, I have never used one (maybe I should!!) I only had a dremel and a unimat 3!

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

On the subject of wobblers – in 30 odd years nor have I.

 

If I need to pick up centre on a punch mark held in a 4 jaw  the 2 centre trick and a DTI produces a more accurate and pretty quick job.

 

If I need to find an edge an edge finder is the answer.

 

A lot of these old tricks came from the days when good instruments weren’t commonly available, and can now be consigned to the quaintly interesting but no longer relevant bin.

 

As for teaching yourself. I agree – a good book and a few bits of metal are as good as it gets. Using something like a Stuart 10 introduces a very fiddly and awkward to make model whose only advantage is that its cheap, and invites the beginner to practice on  items/castings which are of value.

 

By the time someone gets onto a 10 , he would be wise to be no longer an absolute beginner – more someone who has a handle on how to turn things but needs guidance with set ups etc – the next step. 

 

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

This thread is very interesting as it shows just how sophisticated model engineer’s workshops have become.  I started with a second hand Unimat SL (which I still have and use).  I made things on it like retracts for my lace w:st=”on”>R.C. Sealace> Fury.  Then the local council banned model aircraft.  I built a Yacht with  home brewed sail winches.  The local council drained the 12” deep boating pool – it was dangerous!.  Later on when it was well overgrown the junkies used to’shoot up’ there and dump their old needles there. 

I then bought a Myford ML10.  I started work making a fire engine (plans by old LBSC -I still have the plans if My Hobby Store wants them-).  I did it the job the way he did using fly cutters, angle plates etc to machine flats.  Steam ways were drilled and files out.  The cylinder was bored on the cross slide with a between centres boring bar and so on.  No vertical slides they were too expensive.  It is surprising what you can do with a few cup square bolts a scrap of steel and a lathe tool mounted on the faceplate as a fly cutter.  You just have to think about it.  Then I built (and sold) Sir Morris de Cowley a nice little Pacific (I still have the plans same as above).

I do not what kit old LBSC had when he built Ayesia, I think it was a round bed Drummond and little else.  Actually the making side of Model Engineering is really a question of how can I make it with what I have got?.  Highly sophisticated machines make life easier but they can add complications.  Ask your self how can you machine the cylinder block of an H10 with your ‘mini lathe’ or what ever?  Look at the casting and the lathe and you might be surprised just what you can do.  It is all a question of thinking about it.  Remember if you cannot spin the work piece round you probably can spin the tool and hold the work piece still.  After all a circle/cylinder is only a very large number of ‘flats’

However no one knows it all.  In a recent article in Model Engineer the editor showed how to get the bed of such a model flat using a tile, a felt pen, some emery cloth and a file.  I learned about a new use of a felt pen from that!

REGARDS TO ALL

Dick

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Its amazing how much you can learn from ME, new and old. I have small boiler, awaiting fittings. I haven’t made them as I was miserable after the pads for the water gauge ended up not being in the same plane.

 

Then I read an article on boiler making where it was suggested that you  pop a long bar with a threaded end in each bush and twist the rods to ‘teach them some manners’. So obvious, if only I’d thought of it!

 

 

Neil

[Author]

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