Beginners First Mill

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by David George 1 on 22/08/2023 07:40:52:

I would have a look around at as many mills as possible as depending what you want to machine can be limited by the height of the machine and drills for instance get longer with biger diamiter and how you hold what you hold material with also impinges as well. depending where you live there may be a club or society where you can actualy look at diferent machines and perhaps visit arcerotrade Leicester or Chester machine tools or any other supplier.

David

Thanks David, good advice!

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Thor 🇳🇴 on 22/08/2023 07:53:12:

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum. A Warco WM16 (with R8) should be within your budget, remember you also need either some collets or a collet chuck. A milling vice is also handy.

Thor

Hi Thor,

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll check them out!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by not done it yet on 22/08/2023 07:55:19:

Re your space – 600mm is not a lot. 800mm is not even enough for the SX2P mill highlighted above.

Having a table of 400mm, with 330mm travel, plus the long-travel handle it won’t fit in an 800mm envelope. Setting it on the diagonal (of ~1100mm) likely wouldn’t be very satisfactory.🙂 285mm spindle-to-table distance rapidly decreases – once a chuck, drill and vise is involved. I generally use stub drills on my smaller mill.

A great small mill but still small. I do a lot of drilling operations on my mills, but I have still occasionally required a drill with more head-space.

Thanks for your thoughts. I should have made my post clearer. The rough dimensions I gave are just the floor space I've got to give over to the basic size dimensions of the machine. I realise that these don't cover the movement of the individual parts and I have allowed for these. Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Nicholas Farr on 22/08/2023 08:02:48:

Hi Chris, I would say you need to decide what the largest thing you will likely need to machine, you will then need a machine where the table travel in both directions is longer than those, bearing in mind what the largest cutter you would be using. The next thing to think about is the tooling you will need for the machine you choose, like a machine vice and or clamps, cutters and any arbors and collets that you may need to fit the spindle. At the end of the day, you are the only one who can choose which actual machine you want, so just consider those within the parameters of what you are most likely to need.

Regards Nick.

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the good advice!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 22/08/2023 08:05:50:

Which Mill of which Lathe is one of the most asked questions for beginners.

Selecting a mill or lathe appropriate for your needs is a difficult task for those starting out in machining and is an expensive exercise. Especially if the wrong equipment is chosen.

There is a wealth of information on MEW but difficult to find for new members to the forum. Therefore, I would recommend that a special section for this be added to the site and a link to it be displayed on the home page so new members are advised of it. After reading this first, they could then ask for other information, without someone repeating what has already been posted.

Edited By Paul Lousick on 22/08/2023 08:06:13

Thanks Paul, this sounds like a good idea!

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Ramon Wilson on 22/08/2023 08:07:50:

If you can increase that space available Chris I have a very good Amadeal R8 taper RV30 mill and lots of kit for around your budget. See the for sales section for details and take a look in my album for images

I have done little to sell this so far save mention and advertise it on here but have now re arranged my workshop and mill is the next to go.

PM me if you are interested and we can talk things over

Best – Tug

Hi Tug,

Thanks for your reply, I'll take a look at your listing later.

My dimensions were very rough and I have a lot of play in all dimensions.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by JasonB on 22/08/2023 08:20:44:

A lot will depend of your 600-800mm space. If there is some clear bench space either side of that then you will get away with the table travel which often adds 50% to the stated width of the benchtop mills. If that is the case then you could get an SX3 size machine in there.

If you are tight up against a wall or other tall items then you are going to be quite limited to X1 size machines or an X2 size would do most of the work and removing the knob on the handwheel when longer travel is needed may just allow you to make use of it's full travel if you don't mind the odd scraped knuckle.

Edited By JasonB on 22/08/2023 08:20:53

Hi Jason, thanks for your comments. My space dimensions are very rough and I have allowed for the travel either side of the machine. Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 22/08/2023 08:25:03:

The machine that you select will be determined by several factors.

Space; Budget; and the use to which it will be put.

The budget does need to allow for purchase of things like a good vice, possibly other clamping equipment, tooling, (Cutters, Collet chuck & collets? ) possibly extra measuring equipment, and if you have any ideass of gear cutting, a Dividing Head or Rotary Table, with a matching Tailstock.

Where space is limited, it is not unknown for a milling machine to be placed across a corner of the workshop, so that the table effectively becomes the hypotenuse of a triangle.

In my case the final determining factor was Height.. To save space, on one end, the table handwheel has no handle.

Howard

Hi Howard,

Thanks for your comments, all good advice!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Journeyman on 22/08/2023 10:00:01:

Chris, have a look at my web page on milling machines it might help a bit!

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the link, I will definitely take a look at this later!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Clive Foster on 22/08/2023 10:14:35:

Probably best to assume you won't get it right first time and pick up something used to play with. Decently affordable and reasonably close to what you think you need shouldn't be hard to fine given a bit of patience.

Prices for used machines in acceptable condition tend to be quite stable so you shouldn't loose significant money.

Think of it as paying for training.

Nothing like experience to sort the wheat of what you actually want from the chaff of what you think you want.

Without practical experience as a guide even the most careful pre-purchase consideration and analysis tends to become a case study in screwing up by the numbers. Even experienced folk with all the qualifications get it wrong.

Not to mention that once you have got the beast what you actually end up doing is often way different to what you planned.

Case in point I went from BCA to Bridgeport via a Chester Lux style, large square column bench mill. The big bench mill turned out to be classic screwing up by the numbers. Perfectly valid analysis. But, for me, unliveable with in real life. Nothing against the machines considerable capabilities, purely wrong style of machine for what I ended up doing. Full scale, not model.

Beginning with the assumption that first purchase is "starter mill" and being willing to change as soon as you outgrow it is great protection against the sunk cost trap. "Spent a fortune on this so I'm darn well gonna make it work." A great time sink that rarely ends well. Having decided before purchase that you expect to change it makes something to quite to specification much more acceptable too.

Clive

Hi Clive,

Thanks for your comments and sharing your experiences.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Mike Hurley on 22/08/2023 10:24:45:

Posted by Paul Lousick on 22/08/2023 08:05:50:

Which Mill of which Lathe is one of the most asked questions for beginners.

Selecting a mill or lathe appropriate for your needs is a difficult task for those starting out in machining and is an expensive exercise. Especially if the wrong equipment is chosen.

There is a wealth of information on MEW but difficult to find for new members to the forum. Therefore, I would recommend that a special section for this be added to the site and a link to it be displayed on the home page so new members are advised of it. After reading this first, they could then ask for other information, without someone repeating what has already been posted.

Agreeing with what Paul says.

The Website FAQS covers many standard items like this and the common question about adding photos to postings. However, there is a lot of material in the FAQs and may be difficult for newcomers to see the wood for the trees and doubt if many bother to venture far into the dark forest! Also, there does seem to be more of an attitude these days looking for instant answers to everything ( Google world I suppose), and I admit to being as guilty as others at times. However, members of the forum are generous in their time and effort to reply regardless, even though you see the same info repeated time and again.

Just thinking out loud – would it not be possible for the web site team to configure things so that when a newbie joins they are directed to a 'checklist' of say the 10 most common questions, which they have to agree to? Before going more into the sort of idea that I have, it will be interesting just to get feedback on the concept – good or bad. If it is a possibility, I appreciate work would be required, but am confident that members would contribute, as I would be happy to

regards Mike.

Edited By Mike Hurley on 22/08/2023 10:39:53

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your comments and from using other forums and helping other people out I completely agree with you.

I appreciate all the replies I have received and they are starting to help me get an idea of what I should be looking for.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Vic on 22/08/2023 10:47:04:

If you can get one to fit your space somehow I can thoroughly recommend a small knee mill. Something like a used Warco VMC perhaps? Other designs of small mills can be quite limiting sometimes, especially mill drills. Good luck with your quest.

Hi Vic,

Thanks for your recommendation, I'll check it out.

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Robin on 22/08/2023 11:02:09:

Has anyone ever played with a Deckel?

Might you trade some of that American Bridgeport solidity for a bit of Continental, double-jointed flexibility?

When Gotteswinter starts twisting his Deckel horizontal table through all its' degrees of freedom I go a bit slack-jawed and drooly

Hi Robin,

Thanks for your post, sounds interesting!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by JasonB on 22/08/2023 11:37:49:

If somebody wants to compile a what mill and what lathe guide then I'm sure Neil will happily post it as an article or make it a sticky in a suitable forum topic.

Would probably need two of each, one to cater for those wanting a new machine and another for those with a liking for old iron

Hi Jason,

For newcomers to milling, such as myself this sounds like a great idea!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Vic on 22/08/2023 12:22:14:

Posted by Robin on 22/08/2023 11:02:09:

Has anyone ever played with a Deckel?

Might you trade some of that American Bridgeport solidity for a bit of Continental, double-jointed flexibility?

When Gotteswinter starts twisting his Deckel horizontal table through all its' degrees of freedom I go a bit slack-jawed and drooly

I used an Alexander Master Toolmaker at work which is similar? Lovely little mill and very versatile. I’ve never been that impressed with the Bridgeport apart from the fact some have long tables which can be very useful. I’ve seen a number of old European Universal Mills that I’d far sooner have than a Bridgeport if I had the space and money.

Thanks Vic, I'll take a look at it!

Cheers, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 22/08/2023 13:24:06:

Is 600 – 800mm square the maximum available, or is the table allowed to overhang?

My WM18:

• Stand 400mm wide x 580mm deep
• Tray 600mm wide x 680mm deep
• Table Width 1150mm (including handles)
• Max Right-Left table movement, 1744mm, including handles.

So a WM18 would nearly fit in the space, except the table overhangs by 275mm both sides, much more when the table is traversed. On one side my table projects across a walkway, ion the other it overhangs an area used for storage.

The WM16 and WM14 are much the same design scaled down Can anyone provide their Max Right-Left table movements?

It was size that decided the machine I bought: a WM18 was the biggest I could fit in.

Dave

Thanks Dave for taking the time to list the dimensions of your machine.

I am quite flexible on space and this sounds doable so will check it out.

Many thanks, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Vic on 22/08/2023 17:55:38:

Used VMC on here.

**LINK**

Thanks Vic, Chris.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Posted by Vic on 22/08/2023 12:22:14:

I used an Alexander Master Toolmaker at work which is similar? Lovely little mill and very versatile. I’ve never been that impressed with the Bridgeport apart from the fact some have long tables which can be very useful. I’ve seen a number of old European Universal Mills that I’d far sooner have than a Bridgeport if I had the space and money.

'scuse my ignorance, 'Universa'l meaning you can rotate the table in the Z axis?

So much to learn, so little time left

Robin

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I have the 16VS mill and it does most things i need but i found the Z axis handwheel at the back of the colum a bit of a nuisance with me being a bit short of stature, and had to do a mod to change the handwheel with bevel gears to the right hand side. I would sugest the 20VS which is slightly bigger.

David

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by David George 1 on 22/08/2023 22:32:58:

I have the 16VS mill and it does most things i need but i found the Z axis handwheel at the back of the colum a bit of a nuisance with me being a bit short of stature, and had to do a mod to change the handwheel with bevel gears to the right hand side. I would sugest the 20VS which is slightly bigger.

David

Hi David

Thanks for the recommendation.

Cheers, Chris.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Robin on 22/08/2023 22:00:02:

Posted by Vic on 22/08/2023 12:22:14:

I used an Alexander Master Toolmaker at work which is similar? Lovely little mill and very versatile. I’ve never been that impressed with the Bridgeport apart from the fact some have long tables which can be very useful. I’ve seen a number of old European Universal Mills that I’d far sooner have than a Bridgeport if I had the space and money.

'scuse my ignorance, 'Universa'l meaning you can rotate the table in the Z axis?

So much to learn, so little time left

Robin

Have a look here.

**LINK**

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