Beginners First Mill

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Hi,

I am looking for some advice / recommendations for my first mill.

I've got a maximum budget of around £2000 and a space of around 600 – 800mm square (height ins't to much of an issue) reserved for this tool.

I've done a lot of metal / wood / plastic lathing on my Clark CL300M and pretty much everything that I have needed to make I've been able to do on this (although I would like to upgrade to slightly larger / sturdier lathe at some point – parting especially isn't it's forte).

I'm also planning to use this as a pillar drill for a number of different materials. I use a lot of extraction and keep my tools very clean so I think this should be ok.

As I've said above I'm not looking to be able to remove lots of metal at a time and I won't be making the most intricate of things, I'm just after something that will be robust, capable of doing a range of operations and will not need replacing quickly.

There are so many options out there that I could really do with guidance!

Many thanks in advance for your help, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

I’m looking for recommendations for my first mill.

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

This topic has been covered many times Chris try the forum search for milling machine you will find a lot of information.

I have a SX2p mill, it's been well used and I'm very pleased with it but dose need the small head support, a kit for this is available.

Bob

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

I bought the Seig SX!L mill from ArcEuro (now superceded) because it was all I had room for and within its limits it has done good work, but there are definite limits to a mill that is a bit small – far more so in my opinion, than with a small lathe which can often be made to punch far above its weight if necessary. However I have access to larger machines in the club workshop so this has only ever been a matter of convenience.

The main point to remember though is that while a lathe can do work with a single tool and perhaps a drill chuck a mill will need cutters, a machine vice, possibly clamps and the list of accessories does go on – none of which are supplied as standard while the lathe does often come with at least a chuck.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I would have a look around at as many mills as possible as depending what you want to machine can be limited by the height of the machine and drills for instance get longer with biger diamiter and how you hold what you hold material with also impinges as well. depending where you live there may be a club or society where you can actualy look at diferent machines and perhaps visit arcerotrade Leicester or Chester machine tools or any other supplier.

David

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum. A Warco WM16 (with R8) should be within your budget, remember you also need either some collets or a collet chuck. A milling vice is also handy.

Thor

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Re your space – 600mm is not a lot. 800mm is not even enough for the SX2P mill highlighted above.

Having a table of 400mm, with 330mm travel, plus the long-travel handle it won’t fit in an 800mm envelope. Setting it on the diagonal (of ~1100mm) likely wouldn’t be very satisfactory.🙂 285mm spindle-to-table distance rapidly decreases – once a chuck, drill and vise is involved. I generally use stub drills on my smaller mill.

A great small mill but still small. I do a lot of drilling operations on my mills, but I have still occasionally required a drill with more head-space.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Chris, I would say you need to decide what the largest thing you will likely need to machine, you will then need a machine where the table travel in both directions is longer than those, bearing in mind what the largest cutter you would be using. The next thing to think about is the tooling you will need for the machine you choose, like a machine vice and or clamps, cutters and any arbors and collets that you may need to fit the spindle. At the end of the day, you are the only one who can choose which actual machine you want, so just consider those within the parameters of what you are most likely to need.

Regards Nick.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Which Mill of which Lathe is one of the most asked questions for beginners.

Selecting a mill or lathe appropriate for your needs is a difficult task for those starting out in machining and is an expensive exercise. Especially if the wrong equipment is chosen.

There is a wealth of information on MEW but difficult to find for new members to the forum. Therefore, I would recommend that a special section for this be added to the site and a link to it be displayed on the home page so new members are advised of it. After reading this first, they could then ask for other information, without someone repeating what has already been posted.

Edited By Paul Lousick on 22/08/2023 08:06:13

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

If you can increase that space available Chris I have a very good Amadeal R8 taper RV30 mill and lots of kit for around your budget. See the for sales section for details and take a look in my album for images

I have done little to sell this so far save mention and advertise it on here but have now re arranged my workshop and mill is the next to go.

PM me if you are interested and we can talk things over

Best – Tug

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

A lot will depend of your 600-800mm space. If there is some clear bench space either side of that then you will get away with the table travel which often adds 50% to the stated width of the benchtop mills. If that is the case then you could get an SX3 size machine in there.

If you are tight up against a wall or other tall items then you are going to be quite limited to X1 size machines or an X2 size would do most of the work and removing the knob on the handwheel when longer travel is needed may just allow you to make use of it's full travel if you don't mind the odd scraped knuckle.

Edited By JasonB on 22/08/2023 08:20:53

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The machine that you select will be determined by several factors.

Space; Budget; and the use to which it will be put.

The budget does need to allow for purchase of things like a good vice, possibly other clamping equipment, tooling, (Cutters, Collet chuck & collets? ) possibly extra measuring equipment, and if you have any ideass of gear cutting, a Dividing Head or Rotary Table, with a matching Tailstock.

Where space is limited, it is not unknown for a milling machine to be placed across a corner of the workshop, so that the table effectively becomes the hypotenuse of a triangle.

In my case the final determining factor was Height.. To save space, on one end, the table handwheel has no handle.

Howard

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Chris, have a look at my web page on milling machines it might help a bit!

John

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Probably best to assume you won't get it right first time and pick up something used to play with. Decently affordable and reasonably close to what you think you need shouldn't be hard to fine given a bit of patience.

Prices for used machines in acceptable condition tend to be quite stable so you shouldn't loose significant money.

Think of it as paying for training.

Nothing like experience to sort the wheat of what you actually want from the chaff of what you think you want.

Without practical experience as a guide even the most careful pre-purchase consideration and analysis tends to become a case study in screwing up by the numbers. Even experienced folk with all the qualifications get it wrong.

Not to mention that once you have got the beast what you actually end up doing is often way different to what you planned.

Case in point I went from BCA to Bridgeport via a Chester Lux style, large square column bench mill. The big bench mill turned out to be classic screwing up by the numbers. Perfectly valid analysis. But, for me, unliveable with in real life. Nothing against the machines considerable capabilities, purely wrong style of machine for what I ended up doing. Full scale, not model.

Beginning with the assumption that first purchase is "starter mill" and being willing to change as soon as you outgrow it is great protection against the sunk cost trap. "Spent a fortune on this so I'm darn well gonna make it work." A great time sink that rarely ends well. Having decided before purchase that you expect to change it makes something to quite to specification much more acceptable too.

Clive

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Posted by Paul Lousick on 22/08/2023 08:05:50:

Which Mill of which Lathe is one of the most asked questions for beginners.

Selecting a mill or lathe appropriate for your needs is a difficult task for those starting out in machining and is an expensive exercise. Especially if the wrong equipment is chosen.

There is a wealth of information on MEW but difficult to find for new members to the forum. Therefore, I would recommend that a special section for this be added to the site and a link to it be displayed on the home page so new members are advised of it. After reading this first, they could then ask for other information, without someone repeating what has already been posted.

 

Agreeing with what Paul says.

The Website FAQS covers many standard items like this and the common question about adding photos to postings. However, there is a lot of material in the FAQs and may be difficult for newcomers to see the wood for the trees and doubt if many bother to venture far into the dark forest! Also, there does seem to be more of an attitude these days looking for instant answers to everything ( Google world I suppose), and I admit to being as guilty as others at times. However, members of the forum are generous in their time and effort to reply regardless, even though you see the same info repeated time and again.

Just thinking out loud – would it not be possible for the web site team to configure things so that when a newbie joins they are directed to a 'checklist' of say the 10 most common questions, which they have to agree to? Before going more into the sort of idea that I have, it will be interesting just to get feedback on the concept – good or bad. If it is a possibility, I appreciate work would be required, but am confident that members would contribute, as I would be happy to

regards Mike.

Edited By Mike Hurley on 22/08/2023 10:39:53

[VicParticipant @vic]

If you can get one to fit your space somehow I can thoroughly recommend a small knee mill. Something like a used Warco VMC perhaps? Other designs of small mills can be quite limiting sometimes, especially mill drills. Good luck with your quest.

[RobinParticipant @robin]

Has anyone ever played with a Deckel?

Might you trade some of that American Bridgeport solidity for a bit of Continental, double-jointed flexibility?

When Gotteswinter starts twisting his Deckel horizontal table through all its' degrees of freedom I go a bit slack-jawed and drooly

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

I agree with you Mike, The Website FAQS covers many standard items like this and the common question about adding photos to postings. But a newby my not realize this when they first join and a clear, visible link would help.

Paul.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If somebody wants to compile a what mill and what lathe guide then I'm sure Neil will happily post it as an article or make it a sticky in a suitable forum topic.

Would probably need two of each, one to cater for those wanting a new machine and another for those with a liking for old iron

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Robin on 22/08/2023 11:02:09:

Has anyone ever played with a Deckel?

Might you trade some of that American Bridgeport solidity for a bit of Continental, double-jointed flexibility?

When Gotteswinter starts twisting his Deckel horizontal table through all its' degrees of freedom I go a bit slack-jawed and drooly

I used an Alexander Master Toolmaker at work which is similar? Lovely little mill and very versatile. I’ve never been that impressed with the Bridgeport apart from the fact some have long tables which can be very useful. I’ve seen a number of old European Universal Mills that I’d far sooner have than a Bridgeport if I had the space and money.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Is 600 – 800mm square the maximum available, or is the table allowed to overhang?

My WM18:

• Stand 400mm wide x 580mm deep
• Tray 600mm wide x 680mm deep
• Table Width 1150mm (including handles)
• Max Right-Left table movement, 1744mm, including handles.

So a WM18 would nearly fit in the space, except the table overhangs by 275mm both sides, much more when the table is traversed. On one side my table projects across a walkway, ion the other it overhangs an area used for storage.

The WM16 and WM14 are much the same design scaled down Can anyone provide their Max Right-Left table movements?

It was size that decided the machine I bought: a WM18 was the biggest I could fit in.

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

Used VMC on here.

**LINK**

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Yep, there's another one here too

Comes fully fitted out with Power feed, digi readout, R8 taper, 8" R/T, 5" vise, tilting vise, variable angle plate, angle plate, collet chuck with met/imp collets Er 24 collets, Stevenson hex block collet holder, carbide tooling, hss cutters etc etc.

It too is eight years old, bought for my seventieth birthday but if its had a total of three months work in the time since it's been overworked! virtually all of the tooling and RT are unused

Reason for sale is age related and space requirement.

It has to go soon

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Thanks Bob,

I'll take a look at the SX2P.

I had seen the previous posts regarding beginner mills but as these were from around the 2018s I wondered if anything had changed.

Many thanks, Chris.

[Chris Edwards 1Participant @chrisedwards1]

Posted by Nick Clarke 3 on 22/08/2023 07:40:50:

I bought the Seig SX!L mill from ArcEuro (now superceded) because it was all I had room for and within its limits it has done good work, but there are definite limits to a mill that is a bit small – far more so in my opinion, than with a small lathe which can often be made to punch far above its weight if necessary. However I have access to larger machines in the club workshop so this has only ever been a matter of convenience.

The main point to remember though is that while a lathe can do work with a single tool and perhaps a drill chuck a mill will need cutters, a machine vice, possibly clamps and the list of accessories does go on – none of which are supplied as standard while the lathe does often come with at least a chuck.

Thanks Nick.

While this is my first time venturing into milling I do own and operate quick a varied array of other machines and have budgeted for accessories.

Cheers, Chris.

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