Beginner Lathe for Loco building

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 12/11/2022 11:08:57:

I have a SC2 mini lathe and it is literally riddled with problems, inaccurately ground bed and dovetails, tailstock alignment problems, faulty electrics, gear train misalignment, etc etc. They were never built to a high standard from the get go and so these problems aren't easily fixed. In my opinion it better to have the basics right. What's the point in having a powerful brushless motor for example if the cross slide has zero rigidity? My brand new out of the box SC2 felt like it had already been used for 50 years. Unfortunately I have found this to be true across several Chinese made lathes. My C0 and C1 lathes had similar poor build quality.

My attention was drawn to your post by a member of my team who took a call from a potential customer who raised a concern after reading your post.

If you are referring to your red colour mini-lathe as shown in your album which you purchased from another trader in 2019, I would like to clarify that that machine is not an SC2 mini-lathe, and that it is manufactured by a factory other than SIEG. What you have is a mini-lathe similar to a CJ-18 brushed motor with hi/lo gears.

An SC2 is a brushless motor – belt drive made by SIEG – as sold by ARC and Axminster.

All mini-lathes are not the same. Whilst you are entitled to your opinions about Chinese lathes, I respectfully request you to be specific about the machine you have rather than make sweeping statements which can damage a companies reputation by wrong presumptions being presented.

I wish the OP well with whichever machine he ends up buying.

Ketan at ARC

[Derek DroverParticipant @derekdrover32802]

When I began my time in model engineering I started out with a mini-lathe, it was a very good piece of kit, and very simple to use, but it did struggle with anything particularly large or tough.. excellent for brass fittings but useless for screwcutting. So I upgraded and bought a used Chester 9×20 (same as the Warco 9×18).

The 9×20 is a chineese lathe and does require some fettling to make good, but as I was needing a bigger and more powerful lathe for making my Simplex it proved ideal on a cheaper budget than buying a Myford.

I've now have the 920 for 10 years and its made my simplex and almost finished my L1.

[File HandleParticipant @filehandle]

Questions such as this always seems to produce arguments on both sides of the Chinese / Myford et al fence. 2 other questions occur to me.

• The long term value, which will hold its value better when it comes to letting the lathe go?
• If finance and or space is (as it is for many) in short supply then using a lathe for milling may be the only option. Does this then alter which you should aim for? It was once the norm for model engineers to make do without a mill. In this case is it better to go for a greater capacity lathe?

There does seem to be ML10 (and ML7) lathes for sale for around the £500-700 range. One advantage of second hand is that they often come with other kit that reduces their cost.

[Mike FreemanParticipant @mikefreeman95253]

'One advantage of second hand is that they often come with other kit that reduces their cost.'

This was the main reason for looking at the ML10. I didn't win it however as I was at work so will be going ahead and placing an order with Arc Euro for the SC3.

Of course, I've now also been eyeing up the SX2 Plus milling machine as well

[HowiParticipant @howi]

Posted by Mike Freeman on 15/11/2022 09:01:05:

'One advantage of second hand is that they often come with other kit that reduces their cost.'

This was the main reason for looking at the ML10. I didn't win it however as I was at work so will be going ahead and placing an order with Arc Euro for the SC3.

Of course, I've now also been eyeing up the SX2 Plus milling machine as well

SX2P is a great bit of kit if, like me, you are short of workshop space and money.

I have an Amadeal 210 lathe, just a bit larger diameter than SC3, had it for more than 10 years now, again no regrets.

Arceuro are great to trade with and would not hesitate to purchase one of their lathes or mini mills.

There has been a great improvement in hobby lathes and mini mills since I bought mine, the only reason I did not go for the Arceuro lathe at the time was the extra expense of having the lathe fettled before delivery, not now the case obviously.

Don't let the "Myford" snobs put you off, there are plenty of us on here with Chinese machinary that is working well for us, at least with a new machine you gat a waranty and a LOT of Myfords have been much abused despite their price.

Go for both, you will not regret it, I use my SX2P more than I do my lathe.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 14/11/2022 11:40:51:

Posted by Hollowpoint on 12/11/2022 11:08:57:

I have a SC2 mini lathe and it is literally riddled with problems, inaccurately ground bed and dovetails, tailstock alignment problems, faulty electrics, gear train misalignment, etc etc. They were never built to a high standard from the get go and so these problems aren't easily fixed. In my opinion it better to have the basics right. What's the point in having a powerful brushless motor for example if the cross slide has zero rigidity? My brand new out of the box SC2 felt like it had already been used for 50 years. Unfortunately I have found this to be true across several Chinese made lathes. My C0 and C1 lathes had similar poor build quality.

My attention was drawn to your post by a member of my team who took a call from a potential customer who raised a concern after reading your post.

If you are referring to your red colour mini-lathe as shown in your album which you purchased from another trader in 2019, I would like to clarify that that machine is not an SC2 mini-lathe, and that it is manufactured by a factory other than SIEG. What you have is a mini-lathe similar to a CJ-18 brushed motor with hi/lo gears.

An SC2 is a brushless motor – belt drive made by SIEG – as sold by ARC and Axminster.

All mini-lathes are not the same. Whilst you are entitled to your opinions about Chinese lathes, I respectfully request you to be specific about the machine you have rather than make sweeping statements which can damage a companies reputation by wrong presumptions being presented.

I wish the OP well with whichever machine he ends up buying.

Ketan at ARC

Yes I am talking about the lathe in my album, I assumed they where all the same lathe.

Specifically:

CJ18 Amadeal version

C1 Axminster version

C0 Axminster version

My opinion on those ive had remains the same.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The mill option is the better way to go. Although I have used a vertical slide on the lathe in the past for milling I'd not want to go back to being without a mill now, also takes care of your drilling needs too so should not need a bench drill.

If you are new to machining then get the two beginners books that ARC do, they are written with the modern machines in mind as a different approach to that in books written 60 yrs ago is sometimes needed to get the best out of them. The books also cover items that were just not found in the home workshop then such as ER collets and carbide tools

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Keith Wyles on 14/11/2022 17:29:39:

Questions such as this always seems to produce arguments on both sides of the Chinese / Myford et al fence. 2 other questions occur to me.

• The long term value, which will hold its value better when it comes to letting the lathe go?
• If finance and or space is (as it is for many) in short supply then using a lathe for milling may be the only option. Does this then alter which you should aim for? It was once the norm for model engineers to make do without a mill. In this case is it better to go for a greater capacity lathe?

…

A man after my own heart! I think it's important to think through questions like long term value because the answer depends on the needs of the owner. There are two extremes:

• The equipment is seen as an investment and the owner expects it to retain value. Like owning a classic motor car.
• The equipment is seen as a means to an end, where the value comes from the owner using it. Most of us drive cars in this type, not classics: not expected to last or have more than scrap value when worn out or damaged in action.

One of the reasons I have a workshop full of inexpensive tools is that I don't want it's disposal to become a problem for my grieving relatives. Dealing with a late engineers workshop can be a right pain for the executors. The old chap thought it was wonderful, but his survivors have to separate the wheat from the chaff! How much are the contents worth; who wants it; will we be ripped off. If the relatives have no idea and are under pressure to finalise the estate, there's a good chance a widow will be left with a closed workshop full of slowly rusting gear. Or the whole lot is cleared for scrap. Even if the proud owner left clear guidance, the executors may not have the time or inclination to chase around getting best value. The previous owner's pride and joy becomes a problem to be got rid soonest. My solution is to fill my workshop with tools to be used, considered disposable, and not considered to be an investment. I'm getting value out of it now, and I don't want the notion my hobby tools are worth money to become an albatross when I'm gone.

I'd think differently if anyone else in the family shared my interests. But they don't!

Milling on a lathe is frustrating because lathes lacks rigidity where needed and the workspace is small. Both restrictions are at their worst on small lathes, and become less troublesome on big ones. As Keith says, most hobby milling was done on lathes in the past, and it's not a completely daft idea. Unfortunately my experience is that even a small mill runs rings around milling on a lathe. Mills have more X,Y, Z space, are suitably rigid, and configured to support milling operations. However the call depends on personal circumstances; I decided to buy the biggest lathe and mill that would fit in my workshop with a band-saw, bench, materials and other essentials. If I'd needed a giant lathe to thread drainpipes, I might have sacrificed the mill and put up with the hassle of a vertical slide or a combination machine. But for me milling is high value, so I bought a smaller lathe.

In both cases there is no single correct answer; it depends on what the owner plans to do.

Dave

[Author]

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