BEEP command not workring on a vintage 486 desktop W97 PC

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

I am testing a piece of legacy software written using Borlands BASIC on a vintage 486PC running Windows 97 and everything appears to be working with the exception of the BEEP command which is remaining silent. I have checked the volume setting on the screen to ensure that this has been set high but to no avail. I therefore suspect that an essential piece of software such as a driver or .dll fileperhaps is missing (or perhaps has become corrupt) on the PC. Can anyone perhaps advise me on what the problem may be or what ancillary files need to be checked for their presence on the PC to ensure satisfactory working.

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Is the sounder/speaker showing up OK on device manager?
You could try re-installing, or uninstall/re-install from there.

Can you get any sounds out of the machine by other means?

Bill

[lfoggyParticipant @lfoggy]

There is a sizable community of vintage computer enthusiasts out there with their own websites and forums. I bet you would get help with your question there.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

+1 on what Bill says – if you can get other sounds, it's unlikely to be anything major like a hardware issue, or software controlling system sounds. But the other question to be asked is – has it ever worked on that PC before?

Rob

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The Beep command uses the PC internal speaker not a sound card. I's not conected to the monitor. Should not need any drivers etc.

Does the PC beep at power on?

It maybe the small internal speaker is disconnected or faulty.

Robert

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

Robert – I have never detected any sounds at all on power up. Perhaps I need to look at the internal wiring on the screen which is where the speakers are located.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Greensands on 24/12/2022 17:53:34:

Robert – I have never detected any sounds at all on power up. Perhaps I need to look at the internal wiring on the screen which is where the speakers are located.

Is this a laptop/portable with an integrated screen, or a desktop/tower with a separate VGA screen?

If the former, there may be a stored key/function command to disable sounds; That's fooled me in the past.

If a tower, the beeper might be a separate small piezo electric sounder in the base unit, not a speaker, plugged directly into the motherboard; a couple of my 486 towers had that arrangement. I think one was directly on the mobo, and another on wired header.

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 24/12/2022 18:12:16

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The beep bit used to be on the motherboard and could be set and heard during the boot sequence

If your board doesn't beep during the boot sequence then that's a starting point

i.e. the startup beep may be switched off

the beeps were used for highlighting boot up errors, 2,3,4,etc told you where a problem was

autoexec.bat

config.sys

(omg…about a million years ago now)

Edited By Ady1 on 24/12/2022 18:23:21

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

The set up is a desktop PC connected to a 12" colour VDU having the twin speakers located behind grilles underneath the screen.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by Ady1 on 24/12/2022 18:15:57:

The beep bit used to be on the motherboard and could be set and heard during the boot sequence

If your board doesn't beep during the boot sequence then that's a starting point

i.e. the startup beep may be switched off

the beeps were used for highlighting boot up errors, 2,3,4,etc told you where a problem was

autoexec.bat

config.sys

(omg…about a million years ago now)

Edited By Ady1 on 24/12/2022 18:23:21

It might be before that, and need accessing the BIOS; different hardware has different commands, but it might come up on screen during POST (Power On Self Test) F2 was certainly used, as was F9 and DEL, though confusingly some of the same Function buttons were also used for safe boot on different machines.
This of course assumes the beeper is actually fitted, so mk1 eyeball for that.

Try accessing the BIOS and see if Beeps are turned off.

Bill

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by Greensands on 24/12/2022 18:23:24:

The set up is a desktop PC connected to a 12" colour VDU having the twin speakers located behind grilles underneath the screen.

OK,

Beep is nothing to do with the monitor or external speakers. There is a separate speaker inside the desktop case (or possibly a buzzer on the main circuit board). This is either broken, disconnected or missing. It can be quite hard to locate on some desktops as it might be between the metal chassis and plastic trim.
On most PC's this will beep on power up or a fault. switch off the PC, un-plug the keyboard and mouse and switch back on. If no beep then there is an issue withe the internal speaker.

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 24/12/2022 18:53:08

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

disconnect the mouse and/or Keyboard then turn on – it should bleep – as others have said it will normally be a small device on the main board but otherwise there is a 4 pin connector to a speaker – easily disconnected.

[Barry Smith 4Participant @barrysmith4]

Hi, you could also try replacing the battery, usually a cr24? on the main board. This should not stop the boot but you never know. Also look up a manual for the mainboard/bios and it will give you details on the beeps during boot and what they refer to.

Barry

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

If the battery, usually a CR2032, is dead then you get a bios message and need to force the boot – the date also reverts to some early epoch.

I am somewhat surprised that a board of this vintage still works as electrolytic capacitors tend to fail

Edited By Frances IoM on 24/12/2022 21:55:36

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Posted by Frances IoM on 24/12/2022 21:50:33:
…..I am somewhat surprised that a board of this vintage still works as electrolytic capacitors tend to fail

Still have an Apricot Qi that works!

Rob

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Depending on the board, there was a jumper that was used to connect or disconnect the speaker. Latter ones, the little speaker was on a cable that went onto the board jumper, if you wanted to remote mount the board speaker. It only goes beep, either the onboard or the remote speaker. Some liked to disconnect it, as it was rather annoying. Probably not as annoying as the ring down modem beeps, but still annoying. At work, we still have a 486 still going that does the files for a mill from 1996. The Pentium based backup pc is from 1999. It was amongst the last to support the board and software used.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

+1 for RA2's comments – on a machine this old, the beep referred to in this case has nothing to do with external components – it is produced by a small speaker connected to a pin on the motherboard. It should produce a beep during the switch-on POST test If not it is likely that the connection to the speaker (often mounted on the case) have pulled off.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 24/12/2022 17:28:32:

The Beep command uses the PC internal speaker not a sound card. I's not conected to the monitor. Should not need any drivers etc.

Does the PC beep at power on?

It maybe the small internal speaker is disconnected or faulty.

Robert

On a 486 with Borland BASIC, it's highly likely BEEP used a internal speaker on the motherboard as Robert says. It may be a piezoelectric sounder, a disc about the size of a 2 bob bit, that doesn't look anything like a loudspeaker.

Going back to how early PCs produced sound stretches my memory but roughly, there were 3-phases:

1. A sounder on the motherboard that beeped a single tone. It's the direct descendent of the bell on a typewriter or teleprinter, and was almost a standard feature. Very simple. BASIC BEEP usually activates the sounder, if one is fitted, connected and in working order!
2. Some sort of simple Digital to Analogue Converter, usually proprietary, and requiring special software, not necessarily a driver, to work it. They can play tones. This system didn't last long and I don't recall any of the variants being standardised. Although the technology is straightforward, debugging an unknown faulty one would be difficult.
3. The first two methods were supplanted by Sound-cards. These are sophisticated DAC and ADC peripherals, originally optional high-end accessories, but modern computers usually have one built-in. As they make sounders almost redundant, a motherboard may not have a sounder fitted, or it may have to be jumpered to activate it. Sound-cards produce almost any sound wanted, but the way they work is far from simple. A driver is usually operated by something musical like a MIDI system or media player. In the past languages like BASIC were occasionally tweaked to beep a sound-card, usually not. Modern languages don't support beeps directly, one common technique being to store a sample tone in a wav file, and then play the file when a beep is needed. The easy beep is now difficult. but sound-cards do much more than beep. External speakers are invariably connected to a sound-card, and Borland BASIC is unlikely to interface with it.

The best bet is method 1, find the internal sounder or speaker and make sure it's working. Otherwise, if there's a simple alternative please let me know!

Dave

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Some old style motherboard's had a piezo beeper on wires about 3cm long that just plugged into a jumper on the motherboard alongside the reset button etc.

Frequently, especially if reusing a motherboard I didn't bother – so check inside you have something plugged into the connection – either a small. Beeper or longer wires connecting to a speaker in the case.

[Gerard O’TooleParticipant @gerardotoole60348]

If you go to the Command prompt and hold down the CTRL key and they type G ( ^G should be displayed) then hit the enter key. Yoy should hear a beep if the internal speaker is working

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Gerard O'Toole on 27/12/2022 09:24:36:

If you go to the Command prompt and hold down the CTRL key and they type G ( ^G should be displayed) then hit the enter key. Yoy should hear a beep if the internal speaker is working

Good idea. The same thing in BASIC is:

PRINT(CHR$(7))

Explanation: ctrl-g and CHR$(7) are both ways of sending the ASCII Bell character 7 to the terminal. There's a reasonable chance the terminal will ring the bell by beeping. But only if the terminal supports it in the right way. For instance, on my linux computer the terminal honours ctrl-g with the sound-card, not a beeper fitted to the motherboard. Without taking the machine apart I don't know if my motherboard has a sounder fitted. If present and correct it's never used.

Well worth a try: if it works PRINT(CHR$(7)) solves Greensand's problem.

Dave

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