Bassett-Lowke 2 1/2 inch flying scotsman

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

Your problem is easily solved with the right equipment and tooling. In fact what I have in mind would result in a much better exhaust arrangment anyway with larger exhaust passages. Nick and I are probably thinking along the same lines.

You mention limited funds…

Do you have the resources and equipment to make a new boiler, or buy a commercial job?

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi guys

As the holes are already 1/4 but have become loose due to the thread worn I wonder if I would have sealing problems? Julian asks if I have the equipment to make the boiler etc, answer is no not atall.

Everything I've done has been with hand tools and a Dremel, i can see what you mean about a block with the holes drill into it, one hole each hole would different positions to accommodate the misaligned holes on the cylinders.

I wonder if an engineering company would make me this pope if I send my cylinders to them with the drawing, there's something like 50mm between the frames. I could save up the funds as I'm in no rush to do this with other parts of the train to build.

My concern is the thread has got so weak in the castings, if I screw in anymore times I will have no thread to grip atall.

Regards Derek

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It would be best for whoever does the work to have the loco and make the pipework to fit the parts insitue.

I think Julian was hinting that the cost of a commercial boiler is quite high even in the smaller sizes, having an engineering firm do the pipework will be expensive but nothing compared to the cost of a boiler

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

So a little more progress, new pictures added to album.

Do I carry on or sell to someone more clever, I'm pleased with how far I've come and feel I've saved it from the rubbish bin at least.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

The 2.5"g Society is a great society and John Baguley has done an awful lot in the last few years.

In the ME club I was secretary of in the 1990s I was responsible for deciding that on rebuilding the raised track the 2.5"g rail was omitted. No one had run a 2.5"g loco on the club track for the previous 25 years, and no club member owned a 2.5"g loco.

The popularity of 2.5"g was once very great. Very few clubs now have a 2.5"g track. I think this a shame, and in my own case take full responsibility for this but other factors were involved at the time.

The current market for ordinary 2.5"g stuff is reflected in ebay prices.

John Baguley's loco is not ordinary and has won the LBSC Bowl Trophy.

Your Flying Scotsman is a very old design and doesnt have 3 cylinders like the prototype. You have already described how the exhaust exits dont align in the cylinders. What other problems remain to be discovered with the chassis if the original builder couldnt drill the exhaust holes in the right place for both sides of the loco?

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Julian

Thanks for your email, one thing while building the train I have noticed things that would do with being built much better, and it's very unlikely I would ever get to take the train to a track if I got it steamed, I suppose alot if me wanted to build it as a display item due to the nice look and I have a soft spot for the flying Scotsman due to having a small model when I was young.

I'm told the train can work very well and would happily go round a track, but of course I wouldn't want to throw to much more money at it, you mention John Baugley who had emailed some very kind words if advice and mentioned he may even have a few bits to help me with.

I wonder if a two cylinder train works or if I really should just make as a display model only and not go as far as trying to build or save up for a boiler, the coal fired boiler as mentioned in the later years after te first design looks very good.

I have all the drawings now so maybe one day I will build everything exact and omit any issues you mention.

Regards Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

One thing I wonder is the saying this model is only two cylinder so old and outdated, there seem to be a lot of trains with just two cylinders.

Or is this a drawback on a scale like mine.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hi Derek,

The question of two or three cylinders is nothing to do with being "modern" (or not). The later Flying Scotsman design (published in ME) offered a choice of building in 2 or 3 cylinder versions – the 2 cylinder version being simpler and easier to build. Most G3 locomotives are two cylinder in fact, although there are some very nice 3 cylinder engines around (and indeed single cylinder ones too – although not Scotsmen that I recall)

However, I think you should consider making your model a battery electric one – it would be a lot less expensive than a live steam version but would not preclude later conversion to steam when funds or ability permit. This has been done before in fact (by several G3 Members) and for pretty similar reasons. I know of one engine that was converted probably more than 30 years ago now (as a "short term measure" ) that is still happily running in its electric form. You could buy a commercial motor/gearbox or build one yourself – not impossible even with hand tools (because that has also been done before).

BTW – I've read the previous comments on support for 2.5" track (or lack of it) at some MES and without wanting to get into a bun fight – I think that we are into the same (old) discussion about 'passenger hauling' versus 'scenic' again. I perfectly understand that someone who wants to build a passenger hauling engine might choose a larger gauge. Quite apart from the satisfaction of building in the larger gauge, it's not surprising that a larger engine can generally pull more load e.g. passengers. Given that many MES operate expensive grounds and facilities (and earn essential income on Public running days) it's very easy to see why larger engines/gauges are attractive to MES members.

So does size matter? Of course it does if you want to pull children around your local MES track. I used to build in a larger gauge and belonged to a local MES but I discovered that my interests generally lay elsewhere. Size (be it gauge or scale) is also a matter of perspective to some extent. To most MES members, 2.5" is too small to be "useful" – whilst to many Railway Modellers, G3 is too large to accommodate. To me, it's just the right size to build interesting locomotives and stock that is affordable, allows the level of detail I need and that suits my abilities (e.g. eyesight) and machinery.

What does this mean in practice? Well, I currently own five 2.5" live steam engines in various stages of build (from complete to just started – more if I count the couple without boilers) – plus three battery electric engines (again one complete and two "in hand" ). My enjoyment comes primarily from the actual building and design of these engines (I haven't fully designed a live steam engine yet but all the battery electric engines are to my own drawings). Whilst I obviously go to G3 GTGs, it's mainly a social thing for me – to meet old friends and see (& admire) their work. Most of my hobby is in fact, a somewhat solitary one, as 99% of my "G3 time" is spent in the workshop.

Why is this relevant? From what I've read of this thread (and seen from your photos) you seem to enjoy "making" things and (especially given your limited resources) you seem to have made great progress too. Whilst some here might have very useful expertise for you, it might also be that their interests and enjoyment come from entirely different areas to your own. So my advice is very simple, try to get clear picture in your own mind what you want to get/achieve from this activity, then set yourself reasonable/affordable goals (something I'm not good at by the way) and just go for it. There is little point in worrying about cylinder connections if you cannot afford a boiler. But it would only be a small step up from making a good "display" model to making a really nice (battery-electric) working one.

Regards,

 

IanT

Edited By IanT on 14/08/2016 09:31:39

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Ian

All very good advice, the reason I mention cylinders is because I've been told it's an out of date model being only two cylinder and not a model worth bothering with.

I think the problem with hobbies and forums are the different feelings of different people, money isn't an issue, it's if its worth it.

I personally think that some parts are not even to my standard of work such as some machining done in the past, and would maybe better to start again in time, the frame I feel needs to have the horn blocks done again.

The cylinders are fine other than the misaligned exhaust holes which I can fix by a suggestion on here by screwing into a brass block with holes in different positions.

I don't want to keep going round in circles asking silly questions and annoying all if you, simple answer is I have NO interest in being pulled along by a model train that's not my cup of tea, I want to finish the train so it looks nice and may even work in the future.

What I will do is build the best I can with what I have, I could go any buy a milling machine etc but I will probably never use it again.

I'm very greatful for everyone's help and time to email, you never know parts may turn up on eBay and I can snap them up 👍

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Derek, there's nothing wrong with having your locomotive as a display only, even if it has almost got all the bells and whistles and no real boiler, remember, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think IanT has given a lot of good ideas to consider and you can always revisit working on it at a later date, at least you own it at the moment and it almost certainly sell later on if you feel you do not want it anymore. As far as cost verses value is concerned, that is just a commercial way of looking at things, there are many things I fiddle with that have little or no money value, but it gives me satisfaction that I've made use of something. I know this hobby can be expensive and I like many others I'm sure, would love to buy some of the nice machinery that is available, but stretching what I have is very rewarding also, it's always abut how much money you have available.

Regards Nick.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi everyone

So everything going well, train starting to look like a train now.

But still have this issue of the cylinder exhaust holes driving me mad, real sticking point now. The thread has pretty much gone now in them meaning the pipes wobbles and is loose.

All this from the previous owner drill in different positions, I only have 49mm to play with and its blinking impossible to get them to line up, 1/4 inch pipe so so thick and space so tight. I need to be able to adjust things so I can take them off easily.

I've had suggestions of course which I'm greatful for, but nothing seems to work, well not by me anyway but I'm no expert with live steam.

What's worrying me is the worn holes in the cylinders, feels like I've lost all my hard work because of this so feeling pretty flat tonight.

Some would say it's a stupid thing to worry about with not even a boiler but I like things to be at least ready and the best they can be, I don't like to bodge things, I'm may keep any eye out over the next few months to see if any lists some cylinders etc. 🙏

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I think only option I have is to screw in a 1/4×40 Union which takes a smaller pipe and silver solder the 1/4 inch pipe on to the nipples.

Maybe drill out the union slightly so the inner is around the same size so not to change the required inner diameter.

I was thinking if drill and tapping in some correct size Union that takes the 1/4 inch pipe but they touch each other leaving me no room to bend and add the pipe..

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

Forget the problem with the exahust pipes for the moment. They cant be seen, and neither can your non-existent boiler under your new cleading.

It is pointless worrying about exhaust pipes if the loco has no boiler.

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Even if it takes a few weeks to get a boiler made the train still needs the exhaust pipe fitted so what's the difference in getting it sorted now. There's no rules to which you do first or maybe I'm wrong.

Regards Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

John baugley also said he may have a boiler for me so I've tried to build the train just incase that's the case.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

John Baguley is the expert in this field. Be guided by him.

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi All

Abit more progress added to my album, boggie supplied was just a bent bit of metal, I've made one to drawing.

It's only roughed together yet but it's a step forward compared to the other one, showing progress not because I think I'm any good but because I have no milling machine and just basic hand tools.

This I hope will spur on anyone who just wants to try at building something by hand and not be put off by others who may be old school and be narrow minded, no offence to anyone on here, just in general.

Good evening.👍

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I've moved this thread to teh Loco section.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Not sure what that means but that's cool, hope everyone well.

Abit more work done today on the pipe work, and the boggie. Will add some more pictures this event of the progress.

I hope to get abit more done tomorrow.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi all

I'm just looking at the brass window beading but can't seem to get a nice tight bend, I've a anealled the metal so it's pretty sof but when I do the curve it twists.

Do you have any little tricks you could share when you do this yourselves?

Many thanks in advance..

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hi Derek, you have a PM re exhaust pipe issue.

For window beading – are you using D section / half round stock? If so you may need a jig made from 2 plates held apart with rib or spacers the height of the D section plus a thou or two. Plates can then be placed in a vise to hold them while bending the stock. Note the vise is intended to just hold the plates, not clamp the stock in the plates – stock must be free to move sideways in the plates. If you set a dowel pin in both plates that is the inside radius you are trying to bend, you may be able to just pull the stock around the dowel to bend stock to the angles you need. The plates will keep it from twisting. JD

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks Jeff, I shall look at sorting that out for the next attempt.

Regards Del

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi All

Well it's been a long weekend of train work, I'm not giving up just yet.

Had one big mess up and that was I dropped a trailing wheel and the cast iron wheel chipped and cracked, this wheel wasn't true so I suppose best it happened, just one extra thing to search for.

Half the fun of this hobbie is solving and researching the project, I look especially at other people's work to learn and progress, I find that very interesting. Especially John baguleys work all very neat and well done.

I'm happy to listen and learn from anyone, I will up load some new pictures for anyone who's interested, I wasn't happy with some work so I took everything back to square one.

Thanks Del

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi All

So some more progress has been made, considering how I got the train and how much was wrong and missing it's coming along, considering I have just hand tools I'm glad I gave it a go.

It's been up and down and still have some major works to do, John Baguley mentioned he may have a boiler to suit but I haven't heard from him in weeks, I hope he is OK as he was very kind.

I have had a quote for a boiler if John hasn't got it still, it's a good price so will go for it, Birthday soon so good excuse to ask for cash.

If I ever get more machines in the future I will build this train again from the bottom up, it's nice to build with easy plans, that way everything could be as perfect as all the work you all do, I read some of the build threads to learn and I find it amazing what some of you do.

I've nearly given up on occasions but I can only do my best, it atleast looks like a train now, I've added some pics to my album, one question I would like to ask is I think my Scotsman is an early A1 I was wondering what the tender looks like from the drivers view, did it have a corridor to change shift drivers down the side or was this on later model, reason I ask is I'd like to do some scale work on the tender but need a picture of my actual tender.

I think mine should have just a coal door in the middle and no corridor.

Good evening Derek

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Derek, I was in W. H. Smith yesterday and saw a couple of publications in the magazine racks, which were dedicated to the Flying Scotsman, don't know if they have any relevant information you may be seeking, but may be worth a look. Not sure if the Flying Scotsman had a corridor tender from the start or if it was a development later when they went for a non-stop train from London to Edinburgh.

Regards Nick.

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