Bassett-Lowke 2 1/2 inch flying scotsman

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by julian atkins on 31/07/2016 22:40:17:

For an exhaust pipe this might be OK, but not for a steam pipe!

Just goes to show the obsolescent original design I'm afraid.

Cheers,

Julian

Maybe you should tell that to Mamod who solder all their pipes into the valve block. Or all those Stuart Turner models where the pipe screws straight into the valve chest? Modern thread sealants have also moved on since the Hemp and Boss White of BL times.

This is not a large loco and there may not even be room for a union

David, out of interest and to help those with useful answers do you have a lathe that would allow you to make/modify fittings or are you limited to a basic tool kit?

J

Edited By JasonB on 01/08/2016 07:39:57

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi everyone

I just wanted to say thank you for your kind words, really has spurred me on, Jason I have just basic tools. So that makes everything harder.

I shall read all your suggestions again when home from work to see what's the best solution.

Cheers all 👍

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Derek it may help us help you if you could scan the odd part of the drawing where you have queries and add it to your album, as they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Another option may be to screw or solder the pipe into a small flange that could be filed up to shape and fix that to the steam chest cover with a couple of screws. This would make assembly and dismantling easier. Really depends on how much room you have to play with while also keeping things looking neat.

J

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi everyone.

I hope you are all well, so I have managed to make the boiler outer casing.

It's far from perfect but it's better than nothing, on the drawing it asks to fit two cut outs which make up what I believe is the throat plate, it ask to have this soldered and a right angle bracket added for strength.

Now to hold everything in place I soft soldered the angle on and it's worked out well, now my worry is that this could melt from the flame? There is a flame guard to build in yet so I'm unsure if any flame would touch this.

Obviously when it comes to the actual boiler I'd silver solder, but do you think soft solder will be ok for these joints or will I need to melt this and replace with silver solder? It's a reasonable job and I'm worried I'd be back to square one if I try an remove all this, I want to be safe so if I need to I will start again.

Thanks for everyone's time, I do appreciate the responses I receive.

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

Make the boiler, then the casing afterwards.

The very long barrel on a 'Flying Scotsman' type loco poses lots of problems for efficient steaming in miniature.

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I must add, the boiler casing doesn't touch the boiler like lagging would which is why it doesn't specify which one you build first.

thanks once again Julian for your helpful hints…

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Which part of the country are you in Derek?

Regards,

IanT

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Ian

I'm in Salisbury

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Derek You will have problems trying to silver solder a part that has previously been soft soldered

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I think I will leave it, it doesn't touch the main boiler or it won't if I can build one.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

i have added a picture of my work so far on the boiling casing, from a flat piece of material with basic tools in a summer house I'm happy..so don't look to close

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi all

Quick question, I'm just looking at the exhaust pipes from the cylinders, the previous owner didn't drill the exhaust holes in exactly the same place and as such I can't do a straight piece of pipe.

Do you have to screw the pipe into the cylinder or can you use a nipple and union? I will probably have to bend the pipe into a slightly weird shape to compensate for the misaligned holes

Also I asume you screw the cylinders on from each side and the bolt the back on?

Thanks Del

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

So I've been doing this blinking exhaust pipe all day with no great success, all because of the two holes not centred.

Now I've ordered a bronze T piece to screw two the pipes into, Im assuming it's ok to screw everything in one side and the screw in the other cylinder until it's all tight.

I know what needs doing but it's one of those days when it's not going smoothly because of someone else, now the thread on the holes has become slightly worn leaving the pipes to be wobbly.

I'm pretty sure it would be Ok to seal these threads with sealant once I actually get everything cut and shaped.

If anything sounds worrying and wrong please shout at me and I will try and change the plan.

Regards Del

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Just a thought Derek – one possibility would be to fill in one of the exhaust holes with a bronze plug silvered soldered in, filed flush, then drilled and tapped in the correct place. This would simplify the machining of the tee piece and probably simplify pipe assy as well.

May not be possible or may be viewed as too difficult due to limited space/size, but just throwing it out there as food for thought. JD

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Jeff

I agree that's one option I may need to go down, I will see if the T junction works next week and if not I will do what you suggest and straighten everything up..

Many thanks

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Derek you will find it hard to screw both pipes into a threaded tee and into threaded cylinders as when you screw one in the other will unscrew or just not be able to turn if its a bent pipe.

Depending what room you have either screw into cylinder and use a nutted tee, screw/solder into the tee and a nutted union into the cylinder or third option is to screw into tee and cylinder but have a straight nutted joint part way along the pipe

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Derek, shouldn't hurt to slot the holes in the frames with a round file to accommodate a straight pipe. I think the design is such, that you place the exhaust pipe through the frame holes each side and then screw the cylinders on. This design however, requires the pipe between the two cylinders to be exactly the right length so the threaded portions screw tight, not an easy thing to always achieve. You could use unions if you have enough space, but your holes in the frames would have to be big enough for them to pass through. You may however, be able to use a flange joint on one or both sides, but this may be a bit of a fiddle bolting up.

Regards Nick.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks everyone for your help, I have screwed one side in tight and sealed.

Because the frames flex without the front support in place I will squeeze the frames slightly together, tighten the next cylinder on and then bolt the support back on, by squeezing the frame this gives me the room to turn the cylinder until tight.

Let's hope there won't be much having to take them back off

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

I think Nick's suggestion is the best especially as there is not a lot of room.

Dont forget that the blast pipe must end up concentric with the chimney bore.

I presume that before you started screwing the cylinders back onto the exhaust pipes you checked the piston and gland packing and condition of the bores and port faces? I also give the cylinder blocks an air test off the frames and paint them before attaching to the frames.

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I've added some pictures of how I brought the train and how it stands now.

Doing my best to save from scrap..

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hey everyone, I hope all well.

So I have made abit more progress with the train, I've added some pictures for who maybe interested.

Please be aware I'm making this train with basically a few hand tools and a Dremel, I have a problem and it's driving me mad.

The exhaust pipe is impossible to do due to the two holes not being in line as you can see in my pictures, from trying to get the pipe to work out the threads have pretty much gone in the castings.

I feel pretty sick and worried from it as if I ruin these I've wasted hours of work, I'm sure I shouldnt ask on the thread but do any of you know someone I could pay to build me an exhaust pipe? Maybe fill the poor holes back in and drill two that line up.

I have limited funds but I'd rather send it away and the drawing and just get it done before I ruin the whole lot, because of the angle and tight space I just can't get it to work out, even making the copper pipe soft hasn't helped, with the threads pretty much loose in the cylinders I feel I've ruined all the hard work.

Feel pretty down hearted tonight

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I think if I had the pipe sections soldered into the cylinders at least that would save any issues with threads stripping again…..

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I wonder if I can solder in some unions that take a 1/4 inch pipe I can then make the exhaust pipe screw onto the cylinders instead of into it, that way I can take them off anytime I want.

This would mean making an odd and awkward pipe but maybe possible

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Sorry for so many messages, but just realised I don't think I can plug the hole up a drill a new one as the hole into the chamber wouldn't then line up.

The previous owner has drilled all the way in, in that position..if I blank hole off the new outer hole wouldn't line up with the inlet.

Someone will know way more than me I'm sure…

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Derek, I recon you could either drill and tap them out say 1/4 x 32 ME and then thread a short piece of brass pipe the same for each one, then silver solder a block to the bottom of the blast pipe large enough to accommodate the miss alignment of the two pipes and silver solder them into the block at the bottom of the blast pipe. You could of course do it the same way, but using nipples in the cylinders or the block on the blast pipe if there is enough room. I would avoid soldering anything into the cylinders if at all possible if it were mine. It may take a little time to work out the off-set into the block on the blast pipe, but I do think it is possible, but do remember what Julian said about the blast pipe being concentric with the chimney bore.

Regards Nick.

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