Bassett-Lowke 2 1/2 inch flying scotsman

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi everyone

So I've been given a bassett-Lowke 2 1/2 inch flying Scotsman which once ran, but is now missing its boiler and other parts.

Do any of you clever people have drawings for this train?

Kind regards Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Help needed and hello everyone

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

<edited by moderator>

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 18/07/2016 01:39:37

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Julian

Thanks for your response, obviously your entitled to your opinion.

I of course won't be taking much notice as this model will not only run as well as any new model but will also make a beautiful display Model.

This is probably why the younger generation don't follow in the foot steps of older folk and keep these hobbies alive when you get replys like yours.

Regards Derek

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Oh and the kit was supplied in 1963 which with my maths makes 53 years old not 70-80

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Hi Derek, you have a private message with a possible lead to plans. JD

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by julian atkins on 17/07/2016 21:54:31:

I hope this isnt interpreted too badly,

A rather insincere sentiment don't you think?

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Hallo Derek,

I don't know what the previous 'poster' said but since it was deleted I can imagine. On a more positive note (and from an entirely different perspective) there are a number of very nice B/L Scotsman out there still and some can regularly be seen running extremely well at Gauge '3' Society GTGs – where (with a long rake of teak coaches) they make a most impressive sight.

All of the versions I've seen (I think) have had meths boilers, so (in my view) these are locomotives more suitable for scenic use (Gauge 3) than passenger hauling (the root of the removed comments I suspect). However, if replacing the boiler, then a coal fired one could be substituted of course. I've not looked at the detail but the boiler from the later 2.5" ME Collins version of the Scotsman could possibly be modified to suit (probably need slightly reducing in size). I have one if you would like some general dimensions to think about and also the associated ME build articles (PM me if you are interested).

However, if you intend to just 'display' the engine then this may be academic (and in which case why not just use a dummy boiler – much easier and cheaper) – although the engines value (both financial and aesthetic) would be greatly enhanced if it was useable.

Finally, the National 2.5" Association may well be able to help with original plans and parts. I know there is a 'build' booklet available but I'm also sure there will be B/L plans out there somewhere with the membership. There are hundreds of members of both the N2.5A and the G3 Society who very much enjoy working in 2.5", who understand the benefits of the 'smaller' gauge (lower weight, lower costs, usually simpler to build) and who get a great deal of enjoyment in doing so – myself included.

So welcome to the 2.5" family!

Regards,

IanT

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Couldn't find a photo of a B/L 'Scotsman' with the teaks I'm afraid Derek but here is an example.

Gauge '3' Members are a very friendly lot and you do not need to build your own track to be able to run your Flying Scotsman… so you are certainly not alone…

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Maxitrak have the 2.5" Flying Scotsman drawings by Greenly, not being a loco man I'm not sure if they would be of use maybe Ian would know

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks everyone for your advice and kind words, definitely gives me back my interest in trying to restore this train.

Kind regards Del

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I do have the train on eBay as I was so disheartened after being told to throw away I didn't consider rebuilding.

But if it dosent sell and I can find a boiler to fit or build the original I may well give it a go.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Derek,

Go for it, rise to the challenge and show the ex poster why he is so wrong.!

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Jason, I believe that both the 'Greenly' design and the B/L one are to 1/2" scale – so the boilers would be similar in size and both were originally spirit fired I think. The later Collins/Weise 'Scotsman' design is to 17/32" scale, so will be a bit larger.

Although the original ME articles were for a coal-fired version of the Collins/Weise engine, they also later published a "water tube" boiler for it too. I'm not an expert in 'vintage' 2.5" locos and there are other G3 members with far more knowledge than myself of early 'G3' engines (and who own & run them). I do own the Collins/Weise designed version of this famous locomotive though, so can provide more information in relation to that design.

Any boiler not specifically designed for the B/L engine will need some thought and changes to overall dimensions and mounting/connection points but a 'new' design using the same general approach and materials (as an existing boiler design) would provide a very good starting point I would have thought. Personally, if building a new boiler from scratch for this engine, I'd probably prefer a coal (or maybe gas) fired version of it. I'm a bit biased in this area, as some of the (spirit fired) B/L engines I've seen tend to have the paintwork a bit "singed" around the firebox end of the boiler. I'm also pretty sure that I've seen at least one of these B/L engines "re-boilered" for coal firing, so it certainly can be done

However, to just repeat myself – I'm pretty sure that someone in the 2.5" Association or G3 Society will have the original plans for this B/L engine, so if Derek wants to re-build his engine to the original design then it should be possible.

Regards,

IanT

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi

I would sure like to makes more up to date boiler if I'm honest than to go down the spirit fired type.

Regards Derek

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Derick, you could always obtain construction details from **LINK**

OK the link doesn't work so try this http://www.teepublishing.co.uk/books/building-model-steam-locomotives/construction-of-a-bassett-lowke-2-12-gauge-4-6-2-flying-scotsman/

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 18/07/2016 20:53:10

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Thanks very much Nick, I may see if I can get at least the boiler made for me and do everything else.

This is why I need to source the drawings to either try and buy the correct metal or send for someone to build the boiler for me, I see I need 2 1/2 inch drawn copper tubing but don't know how thick this should be yet.

I'm sure the drawings will explain all, I seem to understand most parts but the boiler and steam pipes in the boiler including how to do steam regulaor worrys me

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi IanT

I'd be really interested in building a gas heated boiler or coal but I reckon that's way out of my league being so new to this, I of course also understand the cost involved.

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I've found a company called Cheddar valley steam who I have emailed about building the boiler and they think a coal fired one could be designed to work, I shall wait and see how helpful there able to be.

Fingers crossed

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

I see they mention an improved coal fired boiler in the 1980's midel engineer for my train, maybe worth searching for that too…

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

I am sorry if my original post was flippant.

However the Bassett Lowke 2.5"g 'Flying Scotsman' is a very poor design and seriously dated.

I was aware of Derek's ebay pics which influenced my original flippant remarks which got 'moderated'.

There is a more serious question as to whether older defective/outdated designs are worth the trouble time and expense in restoring, which in this case will require significant work.

The time effort and expense spent in sorting out an old Greenly design must be heavily weighed up I suggest.

I trust this less flippant post wont also get 'moderated'.

Cheers,

Julian

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Julian

No bad feelings, however I feel to restore an old model which worked at the time is a normal and possibly more rewarding than a new kit.

Saying an old design is defective/outdated is like saying a vintage car shouldn't be restored as it has no disc brakes or windows etc, would you turn away a Ford model T for being outdated when it works perfectly.

The expense is one issue I agree with which made me decide I should maybe sell on, but what if I was able to build a coal fired boiler to a more modern standard, the options maybe there in time and with advice.

We shall see, no hard feelings as your are obviously allowed your opinion.

Derek

[julian atkinsParticipant @julianatkins58923]

Hi Derek,

Old vintage cars worked well in their era with a few ifs and buts.

Most of the small Bassett Lowke designs were very poor. You have only to read the famous 'Battle of the Boilers' in ME in 1923/4 to see this. Bassett Lowke were in a complete fix after this 'battle'. The whole of their design and manufacturing output was for, in 2.5"g, for spirit fired 'scenic' railway locos for rich clients. They continued with this policy despite the dramatic effect LBSC's designs in 2.5"g caused to the ME hobby (and also dramatically increased circulation of ME magazine). Bassett Lowke had to save face and not admit their faulty and inefficient designs for wealthy gentlemen with their garden scenic railways were now a thing of the past. They carried on regardless, with Greenly on the payroll designing locos in 2.5"g that did not match LBSC's designs in performance and haulage.

This is the background to your own acquisition.

No one would build a Greenly design these days.

If you want to build a spirit fired boiler for your 2.5"g Flying Scotsman chassis and run it with a rake of coaches (no driver or passenger hauling) for 20mins or 30mins at a time then so be it. The Model Engineering world realised in 1924 that this was a thing of the past for only rich gentlemen with large gardens.

This is the historical background to your design.

Cheers,

Julian

Edited By julian atkins on 19/07/2016 23:50:38

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Hi Derek,

Have sent you a pm regarding drawings.

So far as I am aware, the BL Scotsman was designed by E W Twining and had nothing to do with Henry Greenly.

HG did produce some excellent coal fired 2½" gauge designs for Bonds of Euston road which are quite capable of pulling a person or two. It was just Bassett Lowke that seemed to not want to progress beyond simple spirit fired boilers.

John

[derek blakeParticipant @derekblake72550]

Hi Julian

It's a very interesting post from you and if I'm honest does make me think I'd be wasting my time and money, which I have very little off.

When I saw the train for sale I never knew the history, I suppose I've just been unlucky again as I was when I purchased a dud traction engine, I think the wanting one of these took over the reality of what I'm getting into.

Thanks again.

[Author]

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