Bar stock

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

An engineering firm local to me is looking to dispose of some redundant stock (rod ).

"heave it in skip for scrap" was going to be the solution.

Since there is a quantity of 27 mm LB4 bronze …

I sugesteted offering it to this comunity..

which brought up the following

1 ) If sold by mail order would it be preffered to ship in 1m or yard lengths and price like that ?.

2) Whats the shortest length usefull?

3) would traceability be an asset ( photo copies of certs?)..

4) what 's it worth?

Pardon me for "advertising" but the engineering co. doesn't want to "advertise" the presense of so many kg of bronse etc. and attract the attention that that might bring.

[Dave C please moderate / relocate as required. ]

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Redundant stock

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Last time I checked; the "weigh-in" price for Copper & Bronze was about £3.30 per Kilo.

That seems like a realistic reference point.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

You would be paying about £3.50 per inch (1" nom dia ) from the ME suppliers so somewhere between the two would be reasonable.

A metre of 27mm would top the scales at 5.04kg

So by the length £136 by scrap weight £17

Yes it would help to know the grade as it shard to tell what it is, 300mm would be the shortest to bother with.

J

 

Edited By JasonB on 05/12/2012 10:17:55

[SteveWParticipant @stevew54046]

I'd say down to 150mm long as some will not have a large lathe bore to cope with more. But I guess you can nibble it down to what suits you.

I would not pay 'top dollar' unless I had a use in mind, but would be happy to pay 'bargain basement' for an addition to my scrap bin.

SteveW

[Clive FarrarParticipant @clivefarrar90441]

I'm with Steve not top dollar for a just in case but I would say 300 mm min purchase to make it worth the companies while to put the cost into selling it, i.e packing , invoicing etc.

£10 per 300mm plus carriage, say £5 would seem to be about right.

They make more than scrap price we pay less than by the inch.

Win win

Regards Clive

[michael coleParticipant @michaelcole91146]

I just ordered some 1inch and 2 inch leaded bronze bar in 2 inch lenght. But this was for a particular job. Buying cheap on spec I would order by at lest one foot.

mike

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

LB4, leaded Bronze with a high tin content. I think that the 300mm length initially at the price plus carriage that Clive has mentioned should be a reasonable bargain.

Clive

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I would probably have a foot or two at Clive rates. It's not stuff I would use every day but useful to have for bushes (boiler and bearing) and possibly small cylinders.

Neil

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

I trust that you will treat this bit of information with total contempt the same as I would certainly do if I was involved but just as an example of how ludicrous the law now is and how difficult it is to do any business at all in engineering :

If on any sales document the word 'scrap' is mentioned then both seller and buyer are committing a criminal offence .

If the material is being sold at a price so far below market price that it is deemed to be a scrap price then buyer and seller are committing a criminal offence .

If buyer at a later date puts any offcuts from the purchase of scrap in dust bin or tosses over hedge then both buyer and original seller are committing a criminal offence .

All three cases arise from the waste disposal regulations and the requirement for a licence to deal in scrap .

It would be laughable if it wasn't so serious . A perfectly respectable engineering business had a surprise visit from a town hall 'official' accompanied by two officious police officers as a result of selling scrap under similar circumstances and was sternly warned to stop the practice immediately or face huge fines and/or gaol . Note that there was no mention of a trial .

Buyer , seller and just about everybody else beware .

Michael Williams .

[VersabossParticipant @versaboss]

That's ludicrous, Michael W. Is this one of the totally over the top EU achievements? I really hope it's still allowed to call it offcut or bar end.

Heaven beware us here from stuff like that. The boiler regulations belong to the same chapter…

Greetings, Hansrudolf

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Michael,

Whilst your warning may be a timely one, and one which anyone dealing in metals should give careful thought to, I think you may have become slightly paranoid.

I went to the relevant government website. The 2012 rules amend the Scrap Metals Dealers Act 1964, but it seems the definitions of what constitutes a scrap metal dealer is unchanged. The Interpretation provisions of the latter act state:

9 Interpretation.E+W

(1)For the purposes of this Act a person carries on business as a scrap metal dealer if he carries on a business which consists wholly or partly of buying and selling scrap metal, whether the scrap metal sold is in the form in which it was bought or otherwise, other than a business in the course of which scrap metal is not bought except as materials for the manufacture of other articles and is not sold except as a by-product of such manufacture or as surplus materials bought but not required for such manufacture; and “scrap metal dealer” (where that expression is used in this Act otherwise than in a reference to carrying on business as a scrap metal dealer) means a person who (in accordance with the preceding provisions of this subsection) carries on business as a scrap metal dealer.

Note that this excludes "a business in the course of which scrap metal is not …bought except as materials for the manufacture of other articles and is not sold except … as surplus materials bought but not required for such manufacture.

Thus a firm selling surplus bought-in stock is not a scrap metal dealer within the meaning of the act. Interested parties can find the test of the 1964 act at

**LINK**

However, if you are in the metal business and sell metal, you should check for yourself and take advice if in doubt.

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 05/12/2012 22:39:55

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Always someone ready to piss in your cornflakes.

Put me down for 3 metres of whatever it's called.

John S

[Trevor Drabble 1Participant @trevordrabble1]

Jason, Can you put me down for a 300m/m length please. Many Thanks. Trevor

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Thanks all.

Looks like they need to sell "bar machined to customer requirements"

Kind of what they nomally do… only simpler drawings……
Will pass on the intrest and see where we can go..

I read that as:  300mm+5-0mmlong 27mm  Dia (nom)  LB4 £10 carr £5 …some intrest

 

 

 

 

Edited By jason udall on 06/12/2012 01:20:17

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Count me in for a couple of feet please Jason

Mick

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

David L, I think you are confusing the scrap metal regs with the waste regulations which is what Michael is talking about, which require you to have a waste carriers licence and the correct paperwork when moving said waste.

J

[S.D.L.Participant @s-d-l]

i would be in for a Metre if available

Steve Larner

[David LittlewoodParticipant @davidlittlewood51847]

Jason,

He said the Waste Disposal Regulations and the requirement to have a licence to deal in scrap. I was reponding on the latter issue. And once you have boought something that is not "scrap" then it is difficult to see how it is different from anything else you buy.

Oh, and yese, please put me down for at least a couple of feet!

David

Edited By David Littlewood on 06/12/2012 08:43:22

[mark mcParticipant @markmc72333]

I would also take abit 300mm long if it needs a home. Don't have any but might need it!

[AndyfParticipant @andyf]

If this gets of the ground and the price turns out to be reasonable, I'd like a metre, too.

As to the price, I see that around £10 per metre has been mentioned, but if the sellers prefer anonymity and someone is handling it for them, he would doubtless wish to add a mark-up for his time and trouble.

Andy

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

AndyF .. I think anon. just initally and a toe in the water so to speak ..will speak with him today

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

I'll take a metre if the price is right,

Best Regards

Terry

[Gray62Participant @gray62]

I would take a couple of metres if the price is right.

No idea what for yet but it'll add to my – now what can I use that for, stock

[The Merry MillerParticipant @themerrymiller]

And a couple of feet for me please Jason.

Len. P.

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