Axminster/Sieg/Clarke lathe – all the same?

[Ace ChandlerParticipant @acechandler49785]

Morning, and festive greetings to you all.

Quick question – are the Axminster C2 lathe, the Sieg SC2 and the Clarke CLM300M all really the same lathe?

I understand they come with slightly different sets of accessories when you buy them, but really the intent of my question is whether the spares and accessories for one will fit the others [e.g quick change chucks, etc]

Many Thanks,

-Ace

[Ace ChandlerParticipant @acechandler49785]

[jann westParticipant @jannwest71382]

same base unit! price, paint, level of finish, accessories, and motor might vary. Accessories are interchangeable. If you're in the market buy the one from Arc!

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

It is a bit like asking if the Mini Cooper, Wolsey Hornet and Riley Elf are the same car. (I'm showing my age here). From what I have been able to find out, they all come from the same manufacturer and use the same bed, carriage etc. but have considerably different specifications, but chucks, tailstocks, change gears, toolposts and steadies all appear interchangeable.

Brian G

[petro1headParticipant @petro1head]

Posted by Brian G on 17/12/2019 09:13:40:

It is a bit like asking if the Mini Cooper, Wolsey Hornet and Riley Elf are the same car. (I'm showing my age here).

Brian G

You forgot the Mini Inocenti

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Even if the lathes are identical remember all vendors are not equal.

Mike

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Don't forget the warco, Chester, sealy and amadeal varients.

[asimpleparsonParticipant @asimpleparson]

My Axminster C2 (new) has a 100mm chuck and a spindle with 72mm register/flange. Most sources (including Axminster advertising) say it has an 80mm chuck and the smaller spindle. It seems specs may vary according to what is available. Beware ordering things like face plates, chucks etc. and make sure they will fit.

SP.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Hollowpoint on 17/12/2019 09:43:20:

Don't forget the warco, Chester, sealy and amadeal varients.

Warco, Chester and Amadeal all have an adjusting nut on the end of the leadscrew and two nuts on the compound so I assume they are Real Bull machines. Morse tapers and spindle registers are the same (with the caveat in SP's post), but you would probably want to check other components before buying Sieg parts.

Brian G

[Jason BristerParticipant @jasonbrister98177]

So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I would immediately discount the Clarke as an option. I would much prefer to be supplied by a dedicated (model) engineering machinery supplier. I don’t think I have dealt with Axminster, ever, but not because of quality issues.

For clarity and transparency, I’ve actually purchased ‘old iron’ lathes and mills – and only use suppliers for other items such as accessories and consumables.

[OxymoronParticipant @oxymoron]

"So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?"

Jason, I've been a customer of Axminster for 30 years and have no quibble with them. But for value for money on Sieg equipment you can't beat ARC in my opinion.

I have an SC4 lathe and SX2.7L mill both from Ketan at ARC. The price was good including the beginners kit. I'm lucky to live within easy travelling distance and the demo and advise before buying and ongoing service has been excellent. Don't think you would go wrong with either company but I'd go to ARC by preference for SIEG.

Regards

Dave

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?

I have to confess I'm puzzled by the huge difference in prices for what look like much the same machine.

For example the axminster SC4 bench lathe at around £1860 and the sieg SC4 bench lathe at £1380.

Same machines???? with nearly £500 difference or is the axminster far superior????

Geoff

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

May I suggest reading this thread:

advice on choosing a mini lathe

I'd also caution that a mini lathe with a 100mm flange can't take many standard accessories, while a mini lathe with an 80mm flange can take 100mm chucks etc. with a backplate.

So, go big only if you are sure you need the large bore spindle (and bear in mind a Myford S7 spindle only passes 5/8" while a mini lathe is 3/4", so you may not need that big bore as much as you think).

Neil

[Enough!Participant @enough]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/12/2019 16:35:25:

So, go big only if you are sure you need the large bore spindle (and bear in mind a Myford S7 spindle only passes 5/8" while a mini lathe is 3/4", so you may not need that big bore as much as you think).

+1

I started with a (short) minilathe (MT3 bore), then acquired an ML7 (MT2 bore). I kept the minilathe around specifically because of the larger bore …. and almost never used it. Finally I sold it and recouped the room. Haven't missed it.

Individual needs vary of course but certainly worth considering up front.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 21/12/2019 16:35:25:

I'd also caution that a mini lathe with a 100mm flange can't take many standard accessories, while a mini lathe with an 80mm flange can take 100mm chucks etc. with a backplate.

Neil

Neil, you have lost me a bit there, my mini lathe came with a 100mm flange and the 100mm chucks fit direct with no need for a backplate…? what standard accessories wont they take..?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes confused me to, surely with a suitable backplate any accessory can be fitted unless you are talking of just 80mm flange mini-lathe accessories, may even open up more possibilities having a larger Flange.

Whether the particular machine can handle the larger rotating mass and the ability to hold even larger work is another matter.

Edited By JasonB on 21/12/2019 17:16:47

[geoff walker 1Participant @geoffwalker1]

Ace, my nickname when I was an apprentice at Westland Helicopters years ago.

I wou;ld advise dealing with Ketan / Ian at Arcotrade where my SC3 came from. Genuine suppliers and customer care is excellent.

Axminster are overpticed in comparison having had the equivalent model, which was was returned as faulty.,which they were not happy about..

Bill

Yes Bill 10/10 for Arc, having bought a Mill from there I can also highly recommend them.

The SC4 at £1380 from Arc is high up on my wish list in the new year.

At that price I need to see before I buy, so unless anyone knows where I can see one in use somewhere near WA3 it looks like I will have to drive down to Leicester and view at the Arc showroom.

Thanks for the feedback

Geoff

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Jason Brister on 21/12/2019 10:54:44:

So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?

If only it were that easy!

The machines are made to a common out-of-copyright design, in the Far East, mainly China, by a number of different suppliers. The design is said to be European and is typical of a modern manual lathe circa 1965. There are variations such as different motors, electronics, paint-jobs, accessories included and maybe other details, but they are all similar.

All the machines are made down to a price which means they are not subject to intense inspection at the factory. Their design philosophy and build quality is utilitarian. Do not expect them to be as polished as a Western lathe costing 6 to 20x as much, and don't be surprised to find they perform rather well despite that.

Although there are dogs about most these days seem satisfactory out of the box, though all mine benefited from minor fettling. Basically the design is good and the components reasonably made, but to keep costs down the machines aren't finessed in any way. They look and feel rough, but the headstock is aligned with the bed!

Beware of cheap lathes sold by pop-up online sellers; it's hard to tell the difference between genuine bargains and opportunists box shifting rejects and returns. Read the small-print carefully! It's not the lathe that matters, it's what happens if it turns out to be a crock.

All the mainstream British vendors will supply a reasonable machine and – most important – they will refund or replace in the event you are unlucky enough to get a bad example. I think Imperial vs Metric is more important than choosing between reputable suppliers. Axminster are more expensive because their price includes an extended warranty. Clarke (sold by MachineMart) don't have in-store expertise, but spares are available and the company responsible. Some suppliers, I think Arc and Warco are examples, seem to take more care establishing relationships with their suppliers. As a result they may get better finished machines than others. While both have been known to drop the ball, both have good reputations, with Arc getting almost exclusively positive feedback. Warco sell a larger range of machines.

My advice is to pick a machine you like the look of and buy it! Dithering about specifications and build quality just wastes valuable workshop time because there isn't an obvious answer. Unless you intend specialising in small work, best advice is to buy the biggest lathe you can manage. Big lathes can do small work but not vice-versa and it's usually easier to set up work and tooling when there's plenty of space on the machine.

Dave

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Based on my experiences, of four of the importers, (One I have not visited or bought from in years, and another is in almost the same category, the third is not far behind the other two ) Have never used Axminster, so cannot comment

F W I W, I would go for a SC4 from Arc.EuroTrade, Never had a problem with them

Howard.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Just for fairness, re the above price comparison, The axminster comes up as no delivery charge while the ArcEuro shows about £70. That does bring the difference to more like four hundred quid, not five hundred as stated above.

Still a huge savings and not to be ignored. There may be other minor differences, but that is clearly the largest likely difference – the stand is more expensive from Arc, for instance. Warranty periods may be different, but – let’s face it – most claimable defects show up fairly early (wear and tear will not be covered).

Without any idea of the delivery address those figures could be different. I would likely collect it in my car from Syston, anyway, so a price which includes delivery would not be for me.

At 125kg gross and only 95kg nett the SC4 is not exactly a heavy piece of kit. The SC2 is a breeze in comparison – nearly tuck it under one arm and clearly less price differential – but I would still go to Syston.

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

Axminster do give a 3 year guarantee (parts and labour).

Jim

[Ron LadenParticipant @ronladen17547]

Ace, going back to your to your original question are the three lathes the same machine no they are not.

A lot of the machine will be but not the drive train and motor. The Axminster C2 is a 250 watt brushed with high/low gears. The Clarke 300 the same but listed as 300 watt. The Sieg SC2 is 500 watt brushless direct belt drive.

I think you would find a world of difference between a 500 watt brushless/direct and a 250 watt with the gears, I know which I would go with.

The Axminster C2 is £639 free delivery.

ARC price SC2 with £29 delivery £619.

Axminster SC2 £763 free delivery.

I think the above makes it obvious which is the best buy but as always it is you that decides.

Just a pointer you can get the SC3 from ARC for £719 delivered price. The SC3 is the same as the SC2 but its 16 inch, the SC2 is a 12 inch.

Hope it helps. 

Edited By Ron Laden on 22/12/2019 06:20:32

Edited By Ron Laden on 22/12/2019 06:21:14

Edited By Ron Laden on 22/12/2019 06:27:02

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Jason Brister on 21/12/2019 10:54:44:

So out of the Axminster, Arc or Clarke, which is the better build quality/spec?

The Clarke machine is an older (but still current) design while the Arc is a more recent and more powerful one. Axminster will sell you either one of the options.

I chose Arc, but like Dave says above, all will sell you a good machine and provide backup, but stop dithering and start cutting metal!

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