‘average model engineer’

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Where it WOULD come in handy would be for big projects.

Gerald Smith spent 6 years of his life making his rotary marvel

Edited By Ady1 on 22/08/2014 10:09:22

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/08/2014 09:39:53:

(how do I weld shapes or lines together?)

Neil

May be different in TC but in Alibre/Cubify I just draw the shape and extrude it to" meet geometry" of the part I want it to join. I also get a nice round shape when I rotate a section not that facetted look you got.

J

Neil, would it be better to move this to your Adept thread or create another one completely.?

Edited By JasonB on 22/08/2014 10:11:15

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

We're all different but when it comes to learning, personally I find that applying several different approaches at once gives the best rate of return ie working through the tutorials, checking out the Youtube videos and user forums, reading through a couple of "how to" books and getting your hands dirty – all at the same time. Trying to learn by only getting my hands dirty or by only trying the tutorials doesn't get me there as quickly.

For me this applies to most technical challenges, from new machines to new software languages – and CAD, CNC etc. To some extent I reckon the rate at which I can take this kind of stuff in has some bearing on the satisfaction I gain from it. Of course, the bottom line is getting something real out at the end.

Murray

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just a throwaway remark – not meant to start new discussion (that was optimistic!)

I've solved both issue now, but found others… yes over to Adept 'blog'.

Neil

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

I think it all depends on what you want from your engineering. I love owning and using my manual machines, as well as building the things I make with the parts made on those machines. I would find CNC programming totally boring and tedious. I appreciate the fact that for the production of nameplates and the like, going direct from computer to cnc is the way to go, as to use the old fasioned pantograph type engraver, you needed the skill to make the master first. I do use 3D to work out designs, and I find sketchup a good "fast and dirty" tool for using at home, but I am only at one with the universe when I am covered in crap in my workshop! I am no luddite or computer phobic, I have been on the internet since 1996 when Demon first started home connections, and ended up as a director of a company (which I had started) installing wireless broadband in remote rural areas. I don't love computers, or electronics, the PC at best is a compromise built to try to be all things to all people, but the present iterations are quite reliable tools. I do love the internet and I do love using well made British manual machinery. Many top flight engineers have also been model makers, and didn't need cnc to produce some of the finest models that the world has ever seen, As I said before am not a model maker, but I can spend hours admiring the beauty and precision of their work, all done on manual machines and much by hand. Using cnc somehow suggests that your hobby is model making rather than model engineering, cnc is sort of…………………….cheating?

Phil

[Anonymous]

Ah well, I must have got a dud CNC mill. It just sits there and does nothing, even after I've turned the power on, pressed the RESET button and referenced the axes. I have to tell it what tools to use, in what order, create tool tables, what speed and feed to run, as well as what toolpath to follow, and entry and exit strategies, and whether to climb or conventional mill, or both. And how deep to cut and how many passes. And whether i should tweak the feeds to take account of chip thinning on the finish pass. I also have to sort out how to hold the work so the clamps don't get in the way and reference the axes to the work. And not only that I have to design the part in the first place. Yet apparently it is as easy as pushing a button; I want my money back!

I take no responsibility for this post, as I didn't make it by manual means, I just pushed a few buttons.

Andrew

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

That will probably push a few more buttons on here as well Andrew

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

But Andrew………………….those are all the challenges I enjoy solving;-}

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

“Using cnc somehow suggests that your hobby is model making rather than model engineering, cnc is sort of…………………….cheating?”

I consider myself more of an engineer than a craftsman and will never make models myself. Nothing against those who do (in fact I have considerable admiration for what they achieve) but I must say I’m struggling to discern the difference between a model maker and a model engineer – would one be insulted to be mistaken for the other?

Merry

[Another JohnSParticipant @anotherjohns]

Phil – nice, well written post.

…, As I said before am not a model maker, but I can spend hours admiring the beauty and precision of their work, all done on manual machines and much by hand. Using cnc somehow suggests that your hobby is model making rather than model engineering, cnc is sort of…………………….cheating?

As you'll know (from the above posts by me) I'm into CNC.

I try and make *everything* that I can, including screws and nuts, and boiler fittings and injectors and wheels (sans castings). Purchasing that stuff, is that, also, sort of….. cheating?

I DO NOT know the answer to the question, only that it takes many types to keep this world interesting, thank goodness!

So, maybe for me, CNC is a way of producing EVERYTHING from raw materials, whilst many others would purchase items? Who is the "most traditional" model engineer?

A discussion to share a drink in a pub over!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by John Alexander Stewart on 23/08/2014 01:57:50:

 

A discussion to share a drink in a pub over!

Probably end up as a fight in the car park

But a very valid point, is it cheating to buy castings/fittings or is it cheating to use a CNC to hack out the part from solid using a drawing you have prepared yourself or use it to machine/print patterns and make castings from those. Only one of those could be used if you wanted to say you MADE the model.

J

Edited By JasonB on 23/08/2014 07:39:01

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

This could be a Monty Python Sketch along the lines of the three Yorkshire men.

I lad you used a file to make it fit, I used me teeth. Your not a proper Engineer.

Cheers Michael.

[FatgadgiParticipant @fatgadgi]

Teeth ???

Luxury – Ah dug t'ore owt ground an' smelted it ont' stove …………

Just off to play with my CNC and avoid the car park

Cheers – Will

[Anonymous]

Time to give the pot a bit of a stir.

There seems to be some confusion between engineering and machining. Engineering is about applying scientific knowledge and experience to create a design that will fufil a requirement. The design process will most likely take into account the chosen method of production, be it machining, die casting or whatever, but it is not the same as the actual production process. Even the most skilled machinist in the world is useless until he has information on the part which he needs to make.

I wonder how many people in this forum make models to an existing design, and how many build to a design completely of their own making?

Regards.

Andrew

Edited By Andrew Johnston on 23/08/2014 09:19:20

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Not being into models, steam or trains, but well into my various manual olde world machine tools, and making things on them , either for motorcycles or more tooling, i have never liked the British term "model engineer" for the meaning of a "bloke in his shed with a lathe". I have always preferred the American term "home shop machinist".

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Andrew,

It's worth noting that there is more than one definition of Engineer

The second, listed here, might also be relevant in the context of "Model Engineer".

MichaelG.

.

P.S.  There must be a Painting by Numbers joke in this thread, but I really can't be bothered.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 23/08/2014 09:49:01

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Posted by Andrew Johnston on 23/08/2014 09:18:44:

I wonder how many people in this forum make models to an existing design, and how many build to a design completely of their own making?

Or, modify an existing design? I can't resist taking a kit or a design and "I wonder if…" I've had to lay off the James Coombes for quite a while, but as a second Stuart kit, building to the plan is not really doing it for me to be honest, mainly because it's less challenging than the job I did on the Victoria.

After I built the Nemetts Lynx engine, I did use TurboCad to try to design a three cylinder 4-stroke rotary engine (there are artefacts of the Lynx in the design), but TC got in the way, as did a lack of time. I got the "bottom" end and cylinders done, but not attempted the cylinder heads. So for me the interest is in the challenge of doing something a bit different, something I haven't done before. Isn't that a key feature of any hobby?

In terms of the average Model Engineer, my problem is time – I've enough workshop kit to attempt most things now (thanks to those Chinese factories) and would love a KX1 mill, but it's too expensive on the time budget, not the workshop budget. Think it's going to have to be a retirement present to self.

Steve

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

When I was training to be an engineer we used algebra and slide rules to solve problems. Using computers? Bah, that's cheating

Russell.

[SteveIParticipant @stevei]

Russel,

By your description you were the computer……

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_computer

Does that mean that the engineers you were being trained by were cheating since they employed a computer? Or has the role of the computer within science and engineering always been essential and it is simply that the type of computer has changed? Does that mean that this discussion is simply about the type of computer that MEW references in it's articles? With some people considering that the target audience prefer that a human computer and associated methods be the basis of the article rather than a modern digital computer and it's associated method CNC?

Steve

[NJHParticipant @njh]

| …….."is it cheating to buy castings/fittings or is it cheating to use a CNC to hack out the part from solid using a drawing you have prepared yourself or use it to machine/print patterns and make castings from those. "

I suggest that all of this only matters if you wish to enter your model into competition. ( and bask in the consequent glories of success and admiration from peers. ) . If not then any method used to achieve an outcome that satisfies you is all that is required.

After all the most beautiful and intricate model is surely of no USE other than to satisfy its maker?

Norman

[Michael HornerParticipant @michaelhorner54327]

Posted by NJH on 23/08/2014 11:39:02:

| …….."is it cheating to buy castings/fittings or is it cheating to use a CNC to hack out the part from solid using a drawing you have prepared yourself or use it to machine/print patterns and make castings from those. "

I suggest that all of this only matters if you wish to enter your model into competition. ( and bask in the consequent glories of success and admiration from peers. ) . If not then any method used to achieve an outcome that satisfies you is all that is required.

After all the most beautiful and intricate model is surely of no USE other than to satisfy its maker?

Norman

Eloquently put!

Cheers Michael.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

"I made this whistle from a bit of willow using a flint knife I knapped from the raw stone."

"Shame it only makes a wheezy note, then. Look at my fully-working half-scale Lamborghini, I even refined the metal used from its ore!"

"Did you dig the ore our of the ground and mine the coal to make the coke yourself?"

"Err…"

"Nuff said."

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Whilst I don't consider buying castings cheating , some of the models made by the late B. Terry Aspin (The Backyard Foundry/ Foundrywork For The Amatuer) with his home made castings both large and small scale are nothing short of astounding but not everyone has the room to build a cupola type furnace, Or the bottle to pour cast iron! whereas one man in his shed with a lathe and someone elses castings can make beautiful models. By the way, I am a Yorkshireman, but I do have a lathe made by the soft southern B*stards in Colchester., my other lathe was made in Cleckheaton (even though it is badged "Covmac&quot

[CotswoldsPhilParticipant @cotswoldsphil]

Many years ago my Uncle's mate (a pattern maker) used to produce aluminium castings in his spare front room (he lived alone!) He would melt the aluminium in the fireplace with coke as fuel and a plate over the fire hole to effect a good draw to the chimney. He generally used scrap pistons for the source of his metal. One day, the story goes, he added some scrap to the melt-pot and it went up like a roman candle when it got hot, it was assumed that some magnesium had found it's way into the scrap box. Apparently, the chimney pot looked quite spectacular for a while.

My Uncle did produce some fine internal combustion engines and was a source of inspiration for me to get started in model / miniature engineering, I have now completed a Minnie traction engine which is, in my opinion, miniature engineering. I do draw the line at attempting to make my own castings though, as it seems potentially dangerous.

Regards

CostwoldsPhil

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