Auto-darkening helmet “issue”

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

This behavior seems weird.

I’ve had one of these for 2.75 years:

Antra True Color Wide Shade Range 4/5-9/9-13 Solar Power Auto Darkening Welding Helmet AH6-260-0000 TIG MIG/MAG MMA Plasma Grinding, 6+1 Extra Lens Covers
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00BWAEYV8

It’s been perfectly fine for my occasional welding. I tested it yesterday before use and found odd behavior. My lithium-powered 390 lumen LED light, on low, will trigger the auto-darkening, but not with the light on high. The Sun triggers the auto-darkening just fine, as does a ceiling 14W (100W equivalent) LED lightbulb.

I was reluctant to use the helmet and instead suffered with a handheld fixed shade mask.

Why would the LED light on high not trigger the auto-darkening? I store the helmet in the dark, the on-board battery test checks out, and the CR2450 battery itself measures 3.0V.

Anyone have an idea?

Mike

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

I think the only test that  matters would be to strike an arc in front of the helmet and observe the darkening of the lens without staring directly at the arc.

All the rest is academic. There is no telling what part of the light spectrum or what intensity the helmet sensor is set up to detect, so flashlight tests etc may not give the true story.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I’m with Hopper ! Just test with an arc, I have observed odd behievour on my almost new one but it works fine when used for welding. Noel.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

An auto darkening helmet sensor should ideally be sensitive to UV light because UV is the most damaging. They will typically have sensitivity to visible light too.

Does the LED light have separate LEDs for the high and low settings? White LEDs typically use a near-UV LED to excite a white phosphor. Perhaps the low LED “leaks” more near UV than the high one.

Robert.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Thanks for the replies.

While an actual arc would test the helmet, I didn’t want to risk my eyes if it fails.  I already have diminished eyesight from staring at a computer screen for almost 40 years.  I’m kind of late in the game, but I now try to do better at preserving my natural resources.

The LED light, by the way, does not have separate LEDs for high and low settings, which are only distinct by the amount of current.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

I’ve noticed this sort of behaviour with mine when exposed to light from LEDs – Robert’s suggestion seems a plausible explanation.

If it fails to darken, its going to be immediately obvious and the brief exposure seems unlikely to do any serious damage

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Picking-up on Robert’s excellent point:

If the ‘White’ LED is the “blue + phosphors” type, then the colour balance could vary widely with applied voltage … The blue will always be present, and have variable intensity, but the layer of phosphor responds optically, in its own sweet way, to that blue light.

If you have a part number for the LED we may be able to find the relevant curves … but I really think the advice already given is best.

MichaelG.

[MikeK]

On MikeK Said:

Thanks for the replies.

While an actual arc would test the helmet, I didn’t want to risk my eyes if it fails. …

Don’t look through the lens at the arc while testing it. Hold the mask down closer to the arc, turned a bit sideways so the solid plastic mask obstructs the direct line of sight to the arc but you can see a bit of lens off to one side of the arc. Or just strike the arc off to one side of the field of vision through the lens. You will soon see if it darkens when you strike an arc, without having to look at the arc.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Great, thanks.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I seem to remember some one on HERE suggesting a simple test for an auto darkening helmet is to point the TV controller at it. I could be wrong, so what about a spark from a gas welder spark ignition device.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

The rate of change of the light can affect whether the lens darkens or not, you don’t want it darkening just because you look at something white. The LED torch probably does dim by rapidly modulating the LED.

Also, the assembly will block the damaging ultraviolet even if it isn’t darkened (I assume that this is a requirement?). So you won’t get burned corneas or retinas, just spots in front of your eyes if it doesn’t darken.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I agree the test is faulty.   The wavelength and intensity profile of the light produced by LEDs is different to that spewed out by an arc, with the latter being powerful in the invisible ultra-violet.   UV is dangerous because it burns eyes even though it’s invisible.   So welding auto darkeners react to UV rather than ordinary visible light.

Hopper’s test is good because it uses a real arc.

Dave

[John Doe 2Participant @johndoe2]

I don’t think I would ever trust any auto darkening welding mask.

Only takes one split second failure of the darkening mechanism to ‘draw’ a permanent line on your retinas from the arc. And this could make driving for example difficult or impossible. I would not want risk it.

[John Doe 2]

On John Doe 2 Said:

I don’t think I would ever trust any auto darkening welding mask.

Only takes one split second failure of the darkening mechanism to ‘draw’ a permanent line on your retinas from the arc. And this could make driving for example difficult or impossible. I would not want risk it.and

And yet millions of people around the world use them every day.

“UV/IR Interference Filter
The first layer of an ADF is the UV/IR filter, also known as the band pass filter. It sits right behind the replaceable outside cover lens and provides constant protection from dangerous UV/IR radiation. So, even if the auto-darkening function fails to darken the view, you are safe from a serious eye injury. “

https://www.alphaweld.com.au/blog/55-how-do-auto-darkening-welding-helmets-work-

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Yeah, I think AvE on YouTube tested an auto-darkening helment and showed that the bad stuff (UV) was filtered out even without the auto-darkening tech.  No surprise, since we already have sunglasses that filter UV.

And, by the way, I used it yesterday and it worked just like it’s supposed to.

Mike

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, well I’ve been using auto-darkening lens in my welding hoods for over forty years without any problems, and have a good many direct flashes, both at work and at home, but haven’t had any reports of any burns by my optician. The operation of them can be checked in most cases by looking at an illuminated AC filament light bulb, and many fluorescent tubes will activate them to some degree, but of course these are going out of use these days. One of the worst things you can do when arc welding, is not wearing gloves, and having any of your skin uncovered, as over a long period of time, it will do more damage than sunburn.

Regards Nick.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

I was watching one of those ‘idiots at work’ videos on YouTube earlier today and there was one scene of a man who had taped a smart phone, camera face down, on to a paddle shaped board with a hole in it for the camera lens. He was using this as a shield over the arc and observing the weld on the smart phone’s screen. This struck me as being a very good idea if it actually works and, having just got a new smart phone, I may just try out this idea with my old phone. Has anyone else tried this idea? Would this idea work or would the intensity of the arc’s light damage the camera. Is this just a stunt that has been staged as a joke for the video?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

That phone idea sounds so absurd I can’t help thinking it an attempt at a joke.

It could very well blind the phone itself, though that’s immeasurably better then blinding yourself, but I would also suggest the “paddle-shaped board” is not proper protection against reflected glare or spatter.

As you say, an “idiots at work” video…..

.

I do use an auto-darkening helmet for the little welding I do, and have found if I weld outdoors in bright sunlight the lens lets just enough light through to aim the rod or nozzle.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

One blob of flying slag in the right place and your phone camera is toast, literally (almost).

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

My prescription spectacle supplier fits UV filter coating to all lenses as standard equipment these days. No idea if it is up to protecting against a full arc flash but must be some help in conjunction with the UV filter on welding hoods.

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

My 1st auto darkening helmet caused problems with flurecent lights & LED lightning from certain angles from above when used. I bought another one at a show to compare. This one I still use, it was not influenced by the same lightning, it just work.

As far as the cellphone camera, it maybe safe for your eyes seeing  your eyes not directly exposed to the weld, however the camera sensor does not nearly has the exposure range your eyes does, so it maybe easily blown out in comparison trying to see the actual weld as you weld, darkened filter or not.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My first brush with Arc Eye was due to the walls of the building the work ( welding ) was being done in being painted white, just being there was enough ! At 2am I was in the bathroom trying to see what was causing the pain and discomfort – then the penny dropped ! Be Warned ! Noel.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Spectacle lens have a transmission cut off in the very near UV. So no chance of eye damage if you wear specs. This applies to both plastic and glass lens.

Andrew.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I would certainly not trust spectacles to do more than dim an accidental flash slightly, if that. They are designed to reduce reflected glare not direct, extremely bright, incident light, of any wavelength.

I don’t trust those hand-held masks either, and not just because they demand a lot of co-ordination and care to use. Though your eyes are the most important you also need protect your skin, and only a proper, wrap-round welding mask whether static or automatic, can do that.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Meanwhile, in China…

 

 

I’ve seen much the same, and worse, in Thailand, Laos and Vietnam. No glasses at all and squinting is not uncommon.

[Author]

Posts