Are All Our Heritage Industries being Outsourced now

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Wife decided that our mugs we use for tea and coffee were getting decidedly scruffy so we chose new ones, she chose from the range of Royal Worcester porcelain ones featuring animals. They are very good and because they were on offer, good value for money. When I unpacked them each one had a small tag attached by ribbon tied to the handle clearly stating “Made in India”.

I became aware some while ago that our tool industries such as Moore and Wright are now manufactured abroad; being patriotic I felt that our flagship Heritage industries from the dawn of the Industrial Age would be preserved as British taking pride in British Craftmanship, it appears not so. Dave W

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I expect there are still a few. Likely termed as ‘cottage industry’ these days.🙂

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

The Dormer drills I've been getting get are from Brazil. They do good work.

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

I have no doubt that the quality of items supplied under “British” Heritage brands is good, I am just sad to see our proud manufacturing heritage being sold off to the highest bidder or maybe the lowest bidder when supplying products. My belief that this process of cashing in on selling the family silver has been a steady process but seemed to accelerate during the 80’s and early 90’s when it was deemed politically expedient to abandon manufacturing industries and replace with Service Industries, I.e. financial products. Dave W

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

Welcome to UK 2023. Just a natural development of UK 1983.

Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

recently bought [for reasons not relevant here] a long-discontinued Waterford clock … being a glass block with a small Quartz movement inserted.

Inspecting the components, I found:

• Glass block : Made in Slovenia
• Clock movement : Made in Japan
• Clock case: Made in Indonesia

I wonder what they did in Waterford

MichaelG.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Sounds like a knock off to me Michael

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Sounds like a knock off to me Michael

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Bernard … I feel sure you are wrong.

I paid very little for this ‘pre-loved’ example, but it looks right to me.

… By mentioning it, I was simply trying to indicate that what Samsaranda noticed has been going-on for years.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ for Bernard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterford_Crystal#:~:text=Due%20to%20rising%20competition%20Waterford,were%20employed%20by%20the%20company.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 10/08/2023 14:39:31

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Have been to Waterford Crystal several times and was assured that all glass is in house!

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

At the risk of this getting political, what is the relevance of 1983?

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I believe it's called 'badge engineering' and has been going on for years, I looked at some over priced Barbour wellies recently and they were not made in the UK.

Tony

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by bernard towers on 10/08/2023 14:38:21:

Have been to Waterford Crystal several times and was assured that all glass is in house!

.

Please see my edit, Bernard

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Sadly, MANY of the skills that used to be indigenous in UK have been outsourced, and are being lost.

In the Rules, The Peterborough Society of Model Engineers, has one item which speciofically mentions retaining and promoting traditional skills.

Unless skills are kept alive by the various preservation movements, and model engineering, they will be lost for ever, and devices that could be repaired and preserved, will be sent for scrap. Historical atrefacts and their history will be lost.

Our skills need to be passed on to the newer, and younger, members of the hobby, or they will be lost for ever.

In 1977 I was told that in the US a Master Plumber could name his own price, so rare were his skills.

Do not let UK fall down ther same hole!

Howard

[larry phelan 1Participant @larryphelan1]

I recall reading a long time ago that Waterford never had the capacity to produce all the glass that was supposed to be made there and that much if it was made in East Europe.

On the subject of UK going the same way as America, I suspect that,s already happening.

Like here ,very few young people want to know anything about manual work, prefering instead to play with their "Smart" phones and "Tablets", meanwhile, other counties move in for the kill. Who can blame them ?

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by duncan webster on 10/08/2023 14:39:02:

At the risk of this getting political, what is the relevance of 1983?

All the facts defining the changes inherent in the title of this thread are political, and were made in pursuit of political goals – and whatever we might think of them, we all know that.

I'd best say no more.

[john fletcher 1Participant @johnfletcher1]

I recently had a visitor, a plumber or should I say a boiler fitters/ changers, he asked me what was that in one of my workshop draws in which I keep my soldering equipment/ gear, it was stick of plumbers solder. He asked me about it and how did they wipe a joint on lead pipe. those old skills have long gone. For most plumbing work, it now push fit and collect the money vis bank transfer on the phone. I notice we have some female plumbers and electricians, good luck to them. John

[Anonymous]

Still plenty of pottery firms going in the N.Staffs/Potteries area. A few larger ones but a lot of smaller ones. Don’t seem to cater much for the run of mill cheap type household items nowadays, they leave that to the Supermarkets’ Far East suppliers, and going to more upmarket/expensive items. Decent mugs, bowls etc can be expensive but at least they are round unlike the oval ones I regularly see in supermarkets and other outlets.

[Bo’sunParticipant @bosun58570]

It's great to see Dominic Chinea (from the Repair Shop for those wondering who he is) championing the cause for "heritage craft skills". Whilst I applaud him, and anyone else doing similar things, I fear it may just be a little too late.

Oh, and don't get me started on apprenticeship schemes.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Whilst flicking through the channels, I keep coming across a TV programme entitled "Made in Britain" – this seems to show that there are still items being made entirely in this country, although they may not all be things I would need, want or be able to afford.

Rob

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

Talking of lost skills, a washing machine repair man came out yesterday to look at my 3 year old Bosch. He did the most utterly basic untrained look at it and said yeah it's broken and can't be fixed. Then said we can take away the old one and fit a new washing machine for £825 plus VAT. It was at this point I realised that they are just a scamming company who cant actually fix anything. They are just trying to sell new machines to people for a nice round grand. Didn't even say what sort of machine it was so no doubt it would be some real rubbish.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Buffer on 10/08/2023 17:30:28:

Talking of lost skills, a washing machine repair man came out yesterday to look at my 3 year old Bosch. He did the most utterly basic untrained look at it and said yeah it's broken and can't be fixed. …

He might be right.

Since the 1920's there's been a trend towards making stuff that can't be fixed, or at least not easily. Started with light-bulbs and razors, but has since gone much further. If the bearing in a car engine water-pump fails, it's unlikely the bearing will fixed. A new pump is fitted instead.

Washing machines have gone the same way – spares are expensive and difficult to fit. Seems machines are designed with no consideration for maintenance men.

Dave

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

But isn't it our fault for expecting the best possible material lifestyle for the lowest possible cost.

How many people have price as the principle decision point when buying "stuff". So to sell the highest possible volume, the manufacturers build down to a price. So products are designed to be manufactured efficiently rather than designed to be repaired.

Add to that the labour costs of service engineers. I would be surprised if you got much change out of £60/hour once you add in the cost of the van/workshop, tools and business overheads (call centre, billing systems, the time consumed looking at jobs that don't materialise, and any return calls) and of course the VAT.

Put those two together and it becomes very difficult for the average person to justify paying for for or five hours labour to dismantle, repair and reassemble a gadget that can be replaced for <£500 but which then has higher efficiency and a warranty.

I fixed our old (25 year old Bosch) washer a couple of years ago. £50 of bearings and seals plus four or five hours work. Would I have had someone else do it at £60/hour plus parts i.e. £350. Another example is clock repair. These days if you want a mechanical clock fixed by someone competent it will cost you £300 for a simple time only clock and north of £1000 for a three train carriage clock. One reason I bought a lathe and started doing my own!

20+ years ago cheap stuff was poor quality. These days with modern CAM and robotic assembly the quality of even cheap is pretty good. So who is to blame "them" for doing away with heritage skills or us for not being willing to pay for them.

How many here buy their suits from Saville Row? Who would buy a new Myford rather than a Warco WM 290V at half the price. Who would go to a bespoke cabinet maker rather than IKEA.

If the market doesn't value and won't pay for something, it goes obsolete!

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Posted by Bo'sun on 10/08/2023 16:55:05:

It's great to see Dominic Chinea (from the Repair Shop for those wondering who he is) championing the cause for "heritage craft skills". Whilst I applaud him, and anyone else doing similar things, I fear it may just be a little too late.

Oh, and don't get me started on apprenticeship schemes.

It's not impossible to get meaningful apprenticeship schemes started. I played a part in getting the bookbinding apprenticeship scheme off the ground at the Royal Library, Windsor Castle, after I made a direct appeal to the then Prince of Wales.

I pointed out that there was a serious shortage of people with the necessary skills to repair, restore or recreate antiquarian bindings sensitively and competently, and that if places like the Royal Library were serious about conserving their collections in the long term they might consider investing more in keeping alive the skills needed to do so.

I got a very positive response as well an admission that they had not been aware these skills were now such a rarity. The emergence of the apprenticeship scheme means they clearly took my letter seriously.

Edited By Bill Phinn on 10/08/2023 19:04:17

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