Arc Euro and Coronavirus

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I got this update from Arc today:

In the last few weeks, COVID-19 has turned the world upside down, leaving the future uncertain and frightening.

We have therefore arrived at the sad decision to close our web store as of Tuesday 31st of March by midday.

The health and safety of the ARC team is of highest importance to us, and to continue working at this time is not a risk we want to take.

We can't wait to welcome you back on the other side.

Until then, be safe and take care.

Team ARC Euro Trade.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well I hope they & other companies can survive this era in History.

Steve.

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

My sons closed our business down on Friday, they think we can survive around 20 weeks. Biggest worry is how many of our self employed and small business customers will be still trading when we return. How many more of the suppliers for our hobby will have to follow ARC's decision over the next few weeks?

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

This whole miserable time is going to cascade for so many years. With companies going under & of course new enterprise starting up. It has happened a few times before has it not. Recessions etc.

Steve.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Sad but understandable.

Lets hope that all our suppliers can survive this terrible time. They d eserve to!

Howard

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

Sad times but understandable; but when you think about it where do all/most of their supplies come from… China !!

George.

[Bill DawesParticipant @billdawes]

i wonder if this episode of our life will wake us up to over reliance on imported manufactures goods. Maybe we will realise that financial services are not the only important part of the economy. Exporting is of course important to most economies so one countries export is somebody else's import and vice versa but we need a better balance.

Bill D.

[Ian Johnson 1Participant @ianjohnson1]

Are they sending out orders recieved before they shut down?

[VicParticipant @vic]

I find this a little surprising to be honest but it does of course depend on individual circumstances. I’m still ordering and receiving items from companies that provide that in no way can be called essential products. I can understand why you wouldn’t want to risk employing the normal number of staff but surely some of these small companies can carry on with limited staff? if I was an owner of a small company I’d at least try to ship out orders on my own rather than give up.

[Graham SwalesParticipant @grahamswales]

I have no doubt that my reply will invoke the usual suspects ranting about "Elfin Safety" however.

Every business has a duty of care to all its employees, Part of the duty of care is the production of a risk assessment which considers how "an event" may impact either directly or indirectly on an employee or employer. I work for a company manufacturing large special purpose vehicles and on the face of it one would think we would be able to carry on as business as usual, but it isn't that simple.

Consider the basic advice offered by the Government and Medical advisers:-

1) Maintain 2m separation at all times.

2) Provide means of hand washing and sanitising.

3) Only continue to work if it is essential.

In the environment I work, the 2m separation cannot be maintained at all times – we have doors with no visibility panels – two persons could meet. Large components need two or more to handle, tools are used by more than one person, items need to be collected and delivered from stores, first aid needs to be provided, Washrooms would need rearranging, we would need to be sanitising constantly.

Is our work essential – in terms of the shareholders yes – in terms of the end users yes – but essential enough to put persons at risk? No.

Now although I have used ARC on numerous occasions and I must admit that I have never actually visited Ketan's premises, I have the greatest respect for him. Is model engineering equipment "essential" hardly. Will he be able to satisfy a realistic risk assessment? Hardly.

In the end, why expose himself or his staff to any potential risk?

I will now get my tin hat on, ready for a verbal onslaught!

Stay safe.

Grum

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

In the coming days, I expect more companies to close. Very big companies consider themselves to be "essential", as Grum says, this is more about profits and their place in a market.

As this situation continues, I question my company's stance on staying open, we have lost 25% of our workforce, so far.

Jim

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

In the end, why expose himself or his staff to any potential risk?

I will now get my tin hat on, ready for a verbal onslaught!

Stay safe.

Grum

You are absolutely right. Imagine staying open & a few of your employees passing away. You would never forgive yourself. There may be other attributions as well. Like ARC a lot rely on Asian imports. If these are only coming in dribs & drabs. You can not satisfy your customers. It's a loose, loose.

Steve.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Steviegtr on 29/03/2020 16:16:41:

In the end, why expose himself or his staff to any potential risk?

I will now get my tin hat on, ready for a verbal onslaught!

Stay safe.

Grum

You are absolutely right. Imagine staying open & a few of your employees passing away. You would never forgive yourself. There may be other attributions as well. Like ARC a lot rely on Asian imports. If these are only coming in dribs & drabs. You can not satisfy your customers. It's a loose, loose.

Steve.

Absolutely right. Commercial recovery can occur after damaging interruption, but it's Game Over for anybody croaking from the virus.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Vic on 29/03/2020 15:13:16:

I find this a little surprising to be honest but it does of course depend on individual circumstances. I’m still ordering and receiving items from companies that provide that in no way can be called essential products. I can understand why you wouldn’t want to risk employing the normal number of staff but surely some of these small companies can carry on with limited staff? if I was an owner of a small company I’d at least try to ship out orders on my own rather than give up.

I understand Ketan's decision is for the benefit of his employees.

Neil

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Ian Johnson 1 on 29/03/2020 14:55:17:

Are they sending out orders recieved before they shut down?

Yes, ARC will continue to process and dispatch all orders received before the site is shut down, to the best of our ability.

There may be a small handful of orders we may find difficult to execute for some reason, which we will come to know at time of execution. Those customers will be contacted, provided the reason, and such payment authorisations will be cancelled.

I have monitored the developments in China, carrying out pro-active discussions with our main suppliers since around the 20th of January this year, to date. I have watched, listened and learned from them. I have also consulted them on this subject, debated the various points mentioned above with myself, discussed this with my team, and came to the decision to close on Tuesday 31st March by midday. This will allow us enough time to deal with orders and all the issues involved with the closing procedure.

Ketan at ARC

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember19781]

[This posting has been removed]

[Tim HammondParticipant @timhammond72264]

Posted by Bill Chugg on 29/03/2020 16:58:55:

Ketan, thanks for post, I wish you, Ian and the rest of the team well.

Bill

I endorse that sentiment heartily!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Exemplary, as ever, Ketan

I’m sure you will have customers ready and waiting to buy from ARC when normality returns.

MichaelG.

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 29/03/2020 16:29:54:

Posted by Vic on 29/03/2020 15:13:16:

I find this a little surprising to be honest but it does of course depend on individual circumstances. I’m still ordering and receiving items from companies that provide that in no way can be called essential products. I can understand why you wouldn’t want to risk employing the normal number of staff but surely some of these small companies can carry on with limited staff? if I was an owner of a small company I’d at least try to ship out orders on my own rather than give up.

I understand Ketan's decision is for the benefit of his employees.

Neil

Yes, I understand that which is why I said individual circumstances. But as I also said, I’d be sending stuff out on my own if at all possible. One of my recent orders has been supplied by someone doing this. The albeit small company has I understand sent their staff home but the owner has apologised for any possible delays on his webshop and is still shipping orders out by himself.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

The employers who close down will have carried out risk assessments, and being aware of their duty of care to their employees, and to their customers, and acted accordingly and responsibly.

Whilst, personally, am sceptical about over reacting, the probability of catching the virus has to considered. The chance of catching the virus will vary according where you live and how you conduct yourself.

Ostensibly, the chances of dying from the virus may still be many thousands to one. That will not be the case for those who already have major health problems, or live in densely populated buildings.

Thousands to one may be good odds, unless you happen to be the one!

It is good that suppliers are acting responsibly, so that they and their staff will, hopefully, be there for us when the problem has subsided.

Howard

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Ketan,

Best wishes to you and all the staff at ARC from France where we are further into the infection curve than you guys. Hang in there and I'm sure I'll have a shopping list for you when you can re-open.

Russell

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 29/03/2020 18:23:04:

Ostensibly, the chances of dying from the virus may still be many thousands to one.

That may be the case for some. However, for the bulk of our readership who are over the age of 10, the odds are estimated for some representative ages:

• 1 in 500 below the age of 40
• 1 in 250 in your 40s
• 1 in 28 in your 60s
• 1 in 7 in your 80s

See https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/, also my emails of 4 March and 22 March on the Coronavirus thread https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=150094

Current generally quoted death rates appear typically far higher, but are warped because of under-reporting of cases that were very mild and therefore not tested.

Martin

Edited By Martin Whittle on 29/03/2020 19:59:07

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Vic on 29/03/2020 15:13:16:

I find this a little surprising to be honest but it does of course depend on individual circumstances. I’m still ordering and receiving items from companies that provide that in no way can be called essential products. I can understand why you wouldn’t want to risk employing the normal number of staff but surely some of these small companies can carry on with limited staff? if I was an owner of a small company I’d at least try to ship out orders on my own rather than give up.

Hi Vic,

I totally understand where you are coming from.

In 1995, I travelled around in the Congo during the Ebola outbreak. I was the sales guy in a two man business – young and a little carefree. We sold bearings, textile fabric, related dyes, chemicals and textile machinery parts at the time. From 1994 to around 2004, it was a turbulent time dealing with challenging logistics resulting from the Rwandan genocide link and Ugandan and Rwandan wars in the region, in and around the town of Kisangani link where my main customer was located. Ebola still remains an issue in the region link

During the above period, I lost two friends from that region… both lost to AIDS rather than being shot dead or from Ebola. One died in Durban – South Africa, and the other at his home in U.K.. The guy from U.K. was a fabric printer with specialist knowledge who I had known for many years. Once he lost his job here, I helped him to get a job in the factory in Kisangani. Whilst he survived stray bullets and threats to his life, he and his second wife (who he met out there) lost their lives to AIDS. So there is some sadness in wondering what if ?… even though the decisions taken were his own.

I later travelled to China as a buyer, during the SARS outbreak, on a plane with only five passengers on-board. This time I was equipped with hand sanitisers, and 3M FFP3 face masks, visiting an almost empty exhibition. I had knocked on SIEGs door on previous occasions, only to be turned away politely. On this occasion, the General Manager agreed to supply goods to me. I wore a mask, he didn't. At the time, he shrugged and said what ever will be will be. At the time, I was now a sole trader – one man band.

Fast forward January 2020 to date, SIEG GMs and my thinking have developed, and our circumstances have changed. He and I are are both 16 years older than we were back then. We both have greater responsibilities to consider, to include the heath of our teams, their families, our families. Each one of us have to consider our own health too, explore the probabilities, weigh up the pros and cons, and make our own decision, regardless of how big or small a company is.

I am aware of the loss of business, as well as future uncertainty. I understand, respect and commend the other business owners decision to continue on his own. That is his personal decision to make… in the same way as I did from 1995 to 2004. At the same time, after reading the above, I hope you will understand some of the factors which I took into consideration to reach my decision.

Ketan at ARC

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