APOLOGY !

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Gentlemen To those of you hoping to get drill bits sharpened I owe an apology ! Yesterday afternoon my car engine overheated, and the cooling system was full of oil. I had hoped that no seious damage had been done and the cause was a ruptured oil cooler. I have spent all day until now – 9pm trying to repair the fault and will only know in the morning IF i dare risk trying to get to the Midland show or whether there is more to it.

I have even looked at hiring a van but at almost £400 it is out of the question.

I have done my best and feel bitterly disappointed. Noel.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Hope it all turns out OK, without major engine damage.
The radiator might be a problem, but I guess you've changed that to replace the oil cooler; I 've heard of a few Discovery 1 owners who've had the problem, so I hope it doesn't come to haunt me.
I have come across folk who've dug out a decent sized pump, and cycled a detergent solution around the block etc until it returns clean to the bucket(s)
I don't know what sot of car you own, but have you been able to do a pressure test on each cylinder to check for head gasket failure?

Good Luck
Bill

Edited By peak4 on 12/10/2022 23:43:24

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

It's all so complicated nowadays

I could get my MK 2 Escort cylinder head off in 12 minutes and replace it in 27 minutes

A replacement cylinder head was 10 quid from the scrappie located 50 yards round the corner

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Years ago when that sort of thing happened it was usually because the head gasket has blown

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

For those that live in hope – I'm trying to hire a van to get me to the show !

Vic, Ady, Peak, yes I have changed heads at the road side, on one occassion on the way to dover, just happened to have all the tools and a spare head in the boot, MG B. Should have known better than take on a capri 3 litre, seized an exhaust valve !

It seems that although the head was tested and only refitted last week, there is a serious flaw in the alloy. Nothing is simple now, rad hoses with special ends, and requiring other parts to be removed just to be able see the thing let alone work on it ! It's a peugeot 1905 diesel, 1999. Starts 1st time ,runs well, but dumps 1/2 a liter of oil in the water in 20 miles

If I sound down hearted – I am, had been working towards being at the show for the last10 days – may still get there ! Noel.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Peugeot

I avoided them because they had some sort of cylinder liner arrangement in the 80s… looked a bit complicated for a bodger. I always bought a Haynes manual and studied it before I bought my next jalopy

Anyhoo

Hope you get things sorted for not too much cost

GL

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by noel shelley on 13/10/2022 11:25:59:

.

Should have known better than take on a capri 3 litre

.

digressing slightly … about four decades ago [!] when I had my Scimitar Coupé : Specialised Engines’ in Grays Thurrock did me a very nice ‘blueprint’ job on my 3 litre Essex engine.

They are probably long-gone by now

MichaelG.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Yes Noel, Many years ago I had a Pug 405 with the 1905 diesel engine. It got to 135K before the head itself failed – porous aluminium I was told. Anyway, a new head and off it went to 165K before I got rid of the car due to rot.

Initial symptoms was water leaking from it, followed by a great spurt of water when I removed the radiator cap. Don't remember anything else other than the garage I used regularly expected this at any time from 80K onwards so 135K was considered quite good.

Far, far better than the blasted heap of scrap metal & plastic that followed it which the manufacturer called a car. Yes, I'm pointing the finger at you, Ford. Your horrible Focus diesel with the 1.8 ltr engine. Short tyre life, tram-lining, short clutch life (56K) and a "new" engine at 59K. It seems that the turbo failed, and sucked all the oil out of the engine and dumped it in the exhaust. Plus all the other failures which mercifully I've forgotten about. My first and definitely my last Ford.

FWIW, we now use a Toyota Avensis 1.8 petrol – 115K in 9 years from new. The same drivers, towing the same caravan, doing the same work, a world of difference. Next to no repairs, ok a couple of batteries and a few sets of tyres doing something like 30K a set, but that's about it. And 38mpg as against 42 for the Pug and 45 for the Ford.

Sorry about ther diatribe against the Ford. I do understand that I was unlucky and that, eg, my brother, has had nothing but perfection from his Fords. But it only takes one such event to turn me completely off Fords, not that I was particularly keen on them in the first place.

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

[UncouthJParticipant @uncouthj]

Sorry to read of your troubles Noel. Hopefully catch you some other when…

All the best. Jay

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2022 12:14:58:

’Specialised Engines’ in Grays Thurrock did me a very nice ‘blueprint’ job on my 3 litre Essex engine.

They are probably long-gone by now

.

Goodness me !!

They are are still at it: **LINK**

http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk

MichaelG.

.

Edit: or possibly not, going by the date on that web page

Edit: __ here’s a bit of nostalgia anyway:

http://www.specialisedengines.co.uk/testimonials

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 13/10/2022 16:15:53

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Noel, you were missed!

John

[BufferParticipant @buffer]

No worries Noel. You were missed so I'll just have to put my blunt left handed drills away until next year. Hope you get it all fixed OK.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

First one you have missed for a long while Noel, would have to be the year you changed disciplines.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Just got back from the show. Sorry to hear about your car problems, Noel, hope you can get it sorted without too much trouble or expense.

The drill bits will be saved for next time

Rob

[David Davies 8Participant @daviddavies8]

Sorry to hear of your problems Noel, hope to see you on Saturday.

Current BMW bought eight years ago at 136K is now at 245k, it's a diesel and I've had my money's worth out of it!

Cheers

Dave

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Ady1 on 13/10/2022 11:30:16:

Peugeot

I avoided them because they had some sort of cylinder liner arrangement in the 80s… looked a bit complicated for a bodger. I always bought a Haynes manual and studied it before I bought my next jalopy

Anyhoo

Hope you get things sorted for not too much cost

GL

Just for info: It was petrol Peugeots were wet lined in the 1980s. None of the diesels were – diesel blocks were CI, not aluminium. That range of engines were a very reliable design, but the 1905 was likely as much as they could enlarge the 1769 unit, so was maybe not always as good as the smaller engine. By 1999, the 1769 engine was replaced by the 1500 variant, so I expect the 1905 was likely of that later design variant, too.

I’ve only run the 1769 and 1500 non-turbo engines and, collectively, those 5 engines have/had accumulated around 800k miles (not all by me) – with no major failures while in my possession. My brother threw a rod when driving home a newly purchased 1905 (190k miles) and replaced it with the engine (165k miles?) from his previous car which had been stolen and written off. That car rotted away before the engine! My current 106 has only covered nearly 140k miles over its 26 years.

My wife’s last three 2 1/4 diesel turbos have/had collectively amassed over 600k miles with just a turbo failure on one, at 195k miles – which made that car an uneconomic repair.

From my experience Peugeot diesel engines seem to have been a fairly reliable power unit.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Ah Noel!

That explains why we couldn't find you!f

Sorry to hear of your plight.

Hope that you can get things sorted quickly and not too expensively.

Howard

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Noel is at the show today. Thankyou Noel for making the extra effort. I have not seen a Brierly in action before, it has a very nice action once it it set up.

Mike

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Good afternoon,

Several years ago, a work colleague had a problem with, if I remember correctly, oil getting into his car cooling system and pressurising the radiator. I don't remember the make of car. He was in dispute with the local dealers.

Using my workshop facilities, I was able to make him a fitting that would allow the (removed) cylinder head oil ways to be pressurised with a foot-pump while the head was immersed in a tank of water. This revealed that the various compartments of the head had illicit connections. On the strength of this evidence, the dealers had to repair the vehicle at their expense.

There was speculation as to the cause. One theory was that as the molten aluminium flowed into the mould, the flow via two or more paths met without coalescing, the two fronts had already cooled too much. We never got to perform a post-mortem – the dealers hastily confiscated the rogue head!

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

It sounds as if Swarf Mostly is describing a "cold shut", rather than porosity

Possibly caused by less than optimum foundry technique.when pouring that particular casting.

Some casting designs, and cores make such failings more likely.

Presumably, the OEM wanted head back to section and confirm

Howard

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Thank you all for your comments. My concience would not let me let down both Avril and Bridget or the forum members and friends who were going to come to get their drills sharpened SO yesterday I hired a van and arrived yesterday evening, set,up and have been busy today ! No left handers but I did do a 1.25" bit.

I'M AT THE SHOW AND AWAIT YOUR ARRIVAL ! Noel.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

In my view (having worked for one or two engine makers) the OEM or factory wanted the head so that it could not be used again in the same sort of claim. And, of course, as evidence to back up the claim that the dealers would be making in their bit of the guarantee agreement. Which itself might be backed by insurance, which again requires solid evidence.

Incidentally, what turns out to be porosity can start off as alloy inclusions in the casting metal – which turn out to be slightly different from the surrounding metal, causing electrolytic corrosion in the cooling water channels, and so metal, or inclusion, eventually dissolves completely. This can take a very long time – some vintage cars suffer now, but were never a problem before WW2, for instance. Modern alloys are better, and so are modern antifreeze mixes, but we will only know how much better when the engines are still being used 90 years later. Fat chance, I hear you say!

Cheers, Tim

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Just surmising, but If that head was skimmed, while off, that could account for leakage? Those heads were deemed as scrap if needing skimming (by the manufacturer). If skimmed due to warpage, the camshaft bearings would be out of line and if the metal was susceptible to porosity, it could have been ‘the straw that broke the camel’s back’.

Well done, Noel. Late is better than never in this situation! Too late for me, but I didn’t take any drills with me, anyway.🙂

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