Anyone made a splash back for a Boxford?

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Has anyone made a splashback for a Boxford Aud?

I would like to make one for mine but I can’t think how to do it without drilling lots of new holes? Mine is a MK1 aud with the rounded tray which makes things a bit more difficult and as an added bonus I don’t have anything to bend the sheet steel I have.

The only thing I can think of is to use some kind of clamp?

Any suggestions?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I don’t own a Boxford but I did fabricate a combined splash-back and motor guard using 3mm thick PVC sheet, which is moderately stiff.

I formed the bends using simple pieces of plywood clamped to it, and careful softening with a heat-gun. The joints are solvent-welded, reinforced by “angle-plastic” lengths made from the same material, and I think some aluminium-angle in one or two places.

You can bend thin sheet-steel by clamping thick boards to each side – laminated chipboard panels from old cabinets are fine for this – each side of the joint line. The boards keep the steel flat each side of the bend.

One way you can finish the edges for safety and rigidity, is with thin-walled steel tube. Cut a slit as wide as the sheet thickness along the tubes, bond them to the sheet with tack-welds or an epoxy adhesive such as car body filler. I have used ex-car brake pipe along short edges, and as I did not have a milling-machine at the time carefully filed a flat, a vice-width at a time in my case, along each piece until it just broke through the wall.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

I’ve not made a Boxford splashback, but I have made one for my S7 which is on the old industrial stand with rounded edges. The back is made from 1.5 mm sheet and as I could think of no way of bending it neatly, I cut a series of slots with a cutting disc, a bit like long perforations,along the bend line which enabled a very clean bend. The edges are round 10mm tube from B&Q which I bent round a simple wooden former after filling with sand and heating red hot (there are some pictures and description on the model engineer proboards site in the what I’ve done today from earlier this year). After tack welding it all together I filled the slots left in the bend with JB weld and a skim of car body filler before painting. I’m fortunate to have a small TIG set, but did make similar for an old lathe I had years ago from square tube and thin sheet, using hidden pop rivets and soft solder ( and more car filler!) when painted it didn’t lookk too bad from the front. The splashguard is bracketed from the base of the stand quite rigidly as I wanted to hang the heavy machine lamp from it, the idea was to try and make it all look as if Myford intended it to be like that, No, I don’t know why either, but it makes me happy! I’ll try and poke my phone behind the stand to photograph the bracketry later today.

 

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Nigel – thanks for that, it hadn’t even crossed my mind I could use plastic.

Dave – I like the look of yours, good idea with drilling and welding the holes. I’m in the same school of thinking as you, I like my machines to look factory. 👍

It’s the brackets or fixings I’m having more trouble figuring out though. I’m thinking something like a g-clamp which can be attached to the tray.

[Craig BrownParticipant @craigbrown60096]

I have made one for my Boxford AUD out of 3mm aluminium and I clamped it to the upstand on the drip tray by basically sandwiching the drip tray between the splash back and another strip of aluminium across the back that is bolted to the splash back and tightened up when slotted over the drip tray. I will get some pictures when I’m home later

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

You don’t need to bend anything. a flat sheet at the back over a piece of plastic gutter. Plastic trim over sharp edges. Light wooden frame up the back that it can hang on.

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Managed to get a fairly reasonable picture of the brackets for the Myford splashguard mentioned above, shows the clip that fits to the round edge of the existing tray and the 5mm nut and bolt drilled through the edging tube to fix it firmly in place, turned out very rigid and rattle free. Details of bending the tube are on page 487 of what i did today on the model engineer proboards website. I did not actually weld up the slots made to ease the bending but filled them with JB weld compound, I thought if welding was tried I would distort everything, not fell out yet!

[Dave WoottonParticipant @davewootton]

Looking at the above picture I can see the long series socket missing for months nestling between the wooden cabinet top and the wall, typically I gave up looking last week and bought a replacement!!!!

[Craig BrownParticipant @craigbrown60096]

Sorry for the delayed reply. Here is my splashback I made for my Boxford. Its not totally rock solid but sturdy enough.

[Hollowpoint]

On Hollowpoint Said:

Nigel – thanks for that, it hadn’t even crossed my mind I could use plastic.

…

Whilst plastics are easy to work with, I’d think twice before using any of them for a lathe splashback.

Biggest problem is that plastics are rather easy to ignite, and once alight they burn furiously, many emitting toxic fumes.   “The production and burning of polyvinyl chloride generates a number of chemical pollutants and gases including phthalates, heavy metals, dioxins, vinyl chloride and hydrogen chloride – making it a hazardous product.”

Incompatibility with oil and cutting fluids may be an issue and the relative softness of plastics makes them vulnerable to damage.

In contrast steel sheet is an almost perfect splashback material.  In addition to being strong, oil and fire-resistant, tools can be magnetically attached to it, whilst the weight and strength of a well-attached splashback make the lathe a smidgen more rigid.

On the other hand PVC is much less to catch fire than oil soaked cardboard!

Dave

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Yes, PVC can burn but something has to set it on fire, and the chance of that happening is very low. I don’t go machining magnesium alloy at industrial rates!

It is perfectly strong enough for what it does, nor have any of the lubricants I use attacked it.

I have seen industrially-made splashbacks, swarf trays and guards of fibre-glass, and that can burn once it’s in a fire.

I would have used steel but no longer have ready access to the guillotine and folder I nominally part-own – and thirty miles away at that. Nor is my welding good enough for a task like this, and I did not want a forest of pop-rivets looking like a 1960s home car repair, or spikey self-tapping screws.

A splashback that makes the lathe, or rather its cabinet/stand, more rigid in any useful way can only be designed and made as part of a cabinet fabricated from much heavier-gauge steel than feasible in a home workshop; but anyway this implies the cabinet was not suitable in the first place. Which is plainly wrong here as the machine is on a proper Myford cabinet.

Yes, you can attach magnetic things to a steel splash-back, but the only one I can think of is a DTI stand, and I am not going to risk that. My Harrison lathe’s splashback is simply a domestic appliance panel screwed to the shed wall without touching the lathe stand, so it cannot resonate. The DTI stand will cling to it, but not convincingly, and risks a simple slip plunging the instrument to an oily doom.  If you want a magnetic hanging-point a simple steel strip on the wall will work.

[HollowpointParticipant @hollowpoint]

Thanks Craig

That’s exactly what I’m trying to achieve!

[Nigel Graham 2]

On Nigel Graham 2 Said:

Yes, PVC can burn but something has to set it on fire, and the chance of that happening is very low. …

Several issues with Nigel’s justification of PVC, but picking on the first, risk assessment requires consideration of two factors:

• How likely is it to happen?
• What are the consequences if it does?

Is there anything in Nigel’s workshop that could set a PVC splashback on fire?   The answer is clearly yes.   I agree the risk is probably low, but it could happen.   However, it’s the consequences that strongly suggest PVC is a poor choice.   If the splashback catches fire, then the consequences are severe.  And Nigel tolerates this risk because ‘ I did not want a forest of pop-rivets looking like a 1960s home car repair‘.

I don’t mind individuals doing whatever they like in private, but please think wheezes through before recommending them on the internet!  Ask if the idea is dumb, different, or dangerous before hitting send.    A PVC splashback on a machine tool is certainly ‘different’ and definitely ‘dangerous’ if it catches fire.

Dave

 

 

 

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Is there anything in Nigel’s workshop that could set a PVC splashback on fire? 

Maybe if the risk is too great, he could cover the PVC splashback with something designed to be used in an environment where heat and sparks are present.

Maybe that something could be a welding curtain; for example, the ones sold here:

https://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/welding-curtains.html

Please do read the product description to find out the material from which they are made.

See also:

https://cdn.standards.iteh.ai/samples/80881/2e6d096ba303429e97d3ab1ede5d2dc5/ISO-25980-2023.pdf

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

seems all those clear plastic chip and chuck guards fitting to machines are considered OK as well as the big clear doors on CNC enclosures.

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I think Dave is overstating the minimal risks. I for one would ignore his objections. I doubt that he has tried to ignite PVC sheeting. It certainly isn’t easy to get it burning.

Andrew.

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

seems all those clear plastic chip and chuck guards fitting to machines are considered OK as well as the big clear doors on CNC enclosures.

Polycarbonate is not PVC!

[Andrew Tinsley]

On Andrew Tinsley Said:

I think Dave is overstating the minimal risks. I for one would ignore his objections. I doubt that he has tried to ignite PVC sheeting. It certainly isn’t easy to get it burning.

Andrew.

Did you read the post Andrew, in particular the need to consider consequences?   Can you justify why you choose to ignore an assessment explaining why PVC is a poor choice for a splashback?  Is there a rationale, or is it just a gut reaction against ‘elf-and-safety’?

Always good to put numbers on things rather than guess.   Here’s a list of common materials that might be used to make a splashback with their ignition temperatures:

Polypropylene 201°C
Polyethylene 226°C
Polystyrene 226°C
Paper 233°C
PVC  422°C
Pine  427°C
Magnesium 473°C
Polycarbonate 478°C
Oak 482°C
Aluminium 650°C
Steel  1400°C

In this table PVC is lowest in the group requiring more than 400°C to ignite, which is encouraging, but unlike Pine, Polycarbonate, and Oak, the fumes of burning PVC are highly toxic. The consequences are serious – as any fireman will tell you, fumes kill far more people than fire.  In deciding he’s happy to fit PVC, I doubt Andrew ignited any and breathed in the smoke!

How about metals?  Magnesium might be considered low-risk too, but again consider the consequences if it does catch fire.   Aluminium is my entry point – although it can catch fire, very unlikely, unless of course one is turning Magnesium or Titanium.

Getting fire protection wrong isn’t unusual in construction.  Sheets that are pretty, easy to fit and cheap to buy are so, so tempting.  The builder of Grenfell Towers saved £300,000 by using cheap cladding and the cost of the resulting fire was over £1.2bn.   Many similar examples around the world, where some brave soul decided to take the risk and got caught out.

Hope I’ve explained why I wouldn’t use PVC in a workshop.   Why use it when steel eliminates the fire risk entirely?

Dave

 

 

 

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

Too much theory Dave, I would be more impressed if you had tried to ignite said plastics. I have and it isn’t easy. Have you done any practical ignition experiments? I rather doubt it.

Andrew.

[Maurice TaylorParticipant @mauricetaylor82093]

Hi Dave,

Please explain how pvc can catch fire while being used as a lathe splashback.

I know a motor  fault could set fire to it,but you would be in front of the lathe,knock the power off and use your fire extinguisher .

Maurice

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