Anvil find

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Bought from the local scrappy

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I've fancied having a go at some basic 'smithing' for a while although my experience totals making one horseshoe at college 41years ago.

Anyway I was int'pub with local part time dellboy and scrappy when he said he'd seen an anvil someone wanted £100 for and I jumped at that subject to it being in reasonable condition and full size.

It turned up yesterday and the top is pretty darned good , the horn has a little asymmetrical wear. It has the usual square hole but also 2 round holes of different sizes all at the opposite end from the horn. It also has a side 'shelf' jutting out on the side of the main body towards the horn end (facing the shelf the horn is to the left).

It's certainly heavy..probably 2cwt or so but no name etc anywhere. I can lift one end and walk it sideways Picking it up is not an option with 2 of us.

It's in the hobby shed now and I'm startng to clean it up.. wire brushng off some algae stain etc.

It's been painted? black all over. Anyone know if this is likely original (as it looks) and what sort of paint or stove blacking might have been used – or should it just be redone with hammerite? There's a few small flakes of coating where superficial rust shows through but I plan to keep it outdoors under a covered area for when i build a forge so full coating is necessary.

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Don't worry about rust on an anvil. Once you start using it the work will soon clear off any rust on the important bits.

A bit of rust on a good anvil will not affect its' value or usability at all. If you feel you must have a finish on it, I recommend stove blacking. It won't attract dust and fibres like oil or grease would, and is not flammable.

JD

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Of what metal is the average anvil made from?

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

The best old ones have a wrought iron forged base and the upper surfaces are faced with tool steel (usually tool steel by crucible process – very expensive at the time, small batches of a few pounds/kg's each, made in a crucible).

Newer ones have nodular cast iron bases and are faced with AISI 41xx or 43xx series tool steel. The high quality very expensive new ones (mostly made in eastern Europe now) are still made with forged steel bases.

Both old and new, if made well, have the tool steel facings fire/forge welded to the base. To do this both pieces are brought to white heat and are hammered or power forged together. JD

PS the cheap painted cast iron small anvils from China, as sold by the DIY home centres and hardware stores, are rubbish. No steel facings on the top. Iron very low quality cast. One good whack from a real smith doing real work and they shatter. About all they are good for is straightening soft wire and sheetmetal. Try and forge a 1" square bar and they go to pieces.

Edited By Jeff Dayman on 07/12/2014 18:34:33

[Bob YouldonParticipant @bobyouldon45599]

Evening all,

I think you will find a 2cwt anvil has a resonable built in rust allowance!!!!! Seriously though our blacksmith might give his a bit of a wipe over with a bit of cotton waste now and again.

Regards,

Bob Youldon

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Thanks for the comments. Since it's going to live outside and in reality won't get used often, I'll go with the stove blacking and make it nice.

I've got to come up with a stand for it. My chainsaw ability doesnt ever get two parallel cuts on any log of the required diameter and facing the ends with a router I have done on making a coffee table out of a 4" slice that diameter but the jig making for a 2 foot high job wouldn't be worth the effort so I'll likely go with welding up a stand. I did come across an interesting simple idea of using a cut off oil drum filled with tamped sand & ballast but it'd end up sitting in the damp.

Hopefully scrappy can turn up some economic recyclable stock. He's also on the lookout for a large brake drum for my forge.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Unless all you are doing is making horseshoes you should try to keep the working surfaces rust free as any pits and dents will be imprinted on the work.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I used this method on a big oak log for my Anvil, doesn't take long.

http://www.blksmth.com/Anvi_base_preparation.htm

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

It sounds like a good buy. A few years ago I instantly snapped up a good old one when it appeared at work on the back of a trailer with a load of other gear. Its a 1cwt size with its original cast base and has had little use, a nice thick slice of tree trunk would be nice to sit it all on.

The description by Jeff of how the better ones are made is very interesting. I have seen the small cheap ones he also mentions, are they around 5 – 10 kg?

A bit larger than that were the ones made by Record, are they still available? These were very nicely cast but just out of grey iron I think. Does anyone have one of these that they have whacked the hell out of that still survives?

I used to visit the three 'Tabwell Tools' shops in Bakewell years ago. One sold machine tools by Record, myford and Emco amongst others, another was for modelling and crafts and the third sold power tools and was full of Record products such as vices and the anvils. I think the shop owner was also the owner of Record at the time.

I have two other anvils, one is a tiny but perfectly formed one by Record, the other is one I cut and shaped out of old railway line.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Vic, Thanks for that link .. a simplified version of the method I used to skim the thinner slice.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Do not mount the anvil on a steel stand, mine is just fixed to the end of a suitable log, indoors will last years.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If you can, mount it on a log, or old railway sleeper. It might end up looking like my one.

Ian S C

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

If you're going to spend a good bit of time at the anvil, set it on the end of a 16-24" diameter oak log buried 2 to 4 feet into the earth. The top face of your anvil should be 2 to 4" or so below your elbow measured standing next to the anvil with your forearm straight horizontal. The anvil should be no more than 2 1/2 feet from the forge.

Steel barrels and steel stands are not good for anvils, they spring back too much. Solid wood, endgrain vertical is the best material for supporting an anvil.

Forgot to mention that the round and square holes you have in the rear face of the anvil are for hardies and swages, which are various chisel and concave shaped tools used to cut, punch and shape the iron.

Charcoal (lump not briquet) is an excellent heat source for your forge if you can't find bituminous forge coal or metallurgical coke nearby.

JD

PS my grandfather was a working blacksmith who later turned to car repairs. I spent much of my young life watching and learning at the forge and in the garage watching him and my father at work. I still do a good bit of forge work with improvised forge equipment and charcoal.

[VicParticipant @vic]

If you can afford it try and go on a weekend Blacksmiths course. I did one a few years back and it was a really enjoyable weekend. The best fuel if you can get it are Coke Beans, most blacksmiths seem to use them although I did see a smith at one show using a mixture of coke beans and charcoal. These are the sort of thing.

http://anvils.co.uk/products/view/182?cat=32

You can of course use any hammer you like but these make a good alternative to a traditional smiths hammer.

The handles are a bit long and the face needs dressing but the price is right.

https://www.cromwell.co.uk/KEN5257480K

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I was looking at the larger log options whilst splitting firewood today. I'm not sure any was left thick enough for this job..specially since I'm over 2 metres tall and I don't fancy a narrow top heavy base. I might get creative with a stack and brown foamy glue since it occurs to me that rotating 2-3 slices could end up with a level top – but no rush until the forge is made and a carport like cover.

Meanwhile I'll finish cleaning it up and stove blacking.

Oh, and it;s also got a horizontal square hole up it's back end…

Thanks for the help, guys

[VicParticipant @vic]

My first stand was made from 3 pieces of garden sleeper bolted together. As long as the grain runs vertically it will be fine. Since I got the oak log though it's been relegated to propping up a herb garden!

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

If you can get a second one, HERE is another use for an anvil.

Neil

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Posted by Ian S C on 08/12/2014 09:38:43:

If you can, mount it on a log, or old railway sleeper. It might end up looking like my one.

Ian S C

Blimey Ian, where did you get that massive box of matrches!

[VicParticipant @vic]

I've got one like that as well…

[HacksawParticipant @hacksaw]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 08/12/2014 17:17:55:

If you can get a second one, HERE is another use for an anvil.

Neil

Even better.. a lunatic in action ! **LINK**

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

I wire brushed off one side and the bottom today and stove blacked it.. I'll do the other side tomorrow.

Once scrubbed clean it's possible to see the join of the top plate forged to the casting and faint lettering stamped into the side. Sadly I can't make out what it says.. too faint. It's inwards rather than a raised casting. Maybe it;ll be a little better in daylight but I failed to get anywhere trying a rubbing or side illumination. The bottom ine may say 'warranted' or 'patented' or something like that. Middle short line might be a short serial number but the last letters are possibly lb or st (yeah it;s that faint). Top line almost impossible.. may begin with an H or part of a W or even an N.

As for black powder firing… The history of gunpowder factories isintersting ..grinding the powder finely gives best performance and factories were often sited by rivers for water-power.. built with three stone walls and the wall facing the river of timber..so in the event of explosion that weaker wall would blow out into the less populous zone and factory could rebuild and get back to work quickly…

… I'm guessing staff wasn't the problem back then…

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Try rubbing some chalk on the lettered area, then wipe off the surplus, the white may show up better.

Ian S C

[VicParticipant @vic]

The number may be the weight of the anvil in Hundredweight, quarterweight and pounds. For example, if it says 1.3.25 then that equals 112 + 84 + 25 = 221lbs. The numbers should normally be separated by dots I believe.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by Ian S C on 09/12/2014 10:05:35:

Try rubbing some chalk on the lettered area, then wipe off the surplus, the white may show up better.

Ian S C

..it didn't help

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