Antikythera Mechanism : New-ish findings

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The Horological Journal arrived in today’s post, and includes an excellent article [part 1 of 2] about the Antikythera Mechanism.

The reason for mentioning it here is that both parts are already available [free PDF download] on the BHI website, as a link from this blog post: **LINK**

By the Light of the Moon: A Lunar Calendar on the Antikythera Mechanism. Research by Clickspring.

MichaelG.

[David NobleParticipant @davidnoble71990]

Thank you Michael,

Fascinating. I've been amazed by the Antikythera Mechanism for a long time.

David

[Brian HParticipant @brianh50089]

Thanks for that Michael, absolutely fascinating.

Brian

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

If you fancy making one and have a 3D printer Thingiverse has one or two:-

Working Version – looks nothing like the original but has tried to make a working mechanism.

Replica – doesn't work but can be painted up as a decorative piece.

John

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Michael, my BHI copy awaits my morning coffee. I find the Antikythera Mechanism fascinating.

Matt

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Thanks Michael, breakfast this morning was pure pleasure.

The article raises so many questions:

• who did the maths, linking astronomy to gear ratios and the other mechanical design features?
• where was it made and by who? Was it made by a lone genius or by a vanished trade. If a trade , why has only one example survived, and that from a shipwreck?
• who was the customer, and how much did he pay for it?

Considerable metal working skills were deployed by whoever made it. Apart from the hand made gears, the Article says the holes are positioned accurate to 0.13mm. How was it done? I'd be hard-put to make anything remotely like the Antikythera Mechanism today, despite easy access to tools, materials, libraries and the internet. I'm always impressed by the superb builds shared on this forum, but this was made 2000 years ago. No twist drills then!

A quote from the blog sums up why I enjoy Model Engineering: 'I love the precision of those who work with metal. Crafting, bending and cutting until the correct shape, just so, is finally revealed.' Just don't look in my rejects bin!

Dave

[Matt HarringtonParticipant @mattharrington87221]

Dave, If you have a moment, have a look at Clickspring – Youtube project – he goes into the making of tools etc etc.

All fascinating stuff.

Matt

PS, My rejects bin is not for general viewing!

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

My favourite story about the Antikythera is this one, a letter from Richard Feynman to his family from Athens where he was a guest at a conference. Quite a few years back I also attended a talk by Michael Wright, then curator of mechanical engineering at the Science Museum, who was one of the first people to examine its inside structure using a home made x-ray tomograph, at the SMEE in London – quite fascinating! Good article about him in Wikipedia.

[egaParticipant @ega]

"Like button" to MichaelG's OP!

I admit my head began to hurt (though in a nice way) part-way through the first part.

I recall that a working model of the mechanism has been attempted but suppose that the present issue was not resolved by it.

As to the Feynman letter, does anyone know in which museum he found the mechanism? He calls it the "archeological" but I think there is more than one candidate for this in Athens.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Old mate Clickspring is busy making a working replica, using tools and methods the originals could have used in many places. His YouTube channel has a slew of videos on it. As usual, his workmanship is awe inspiring.

Such as this primitive but effective drilling machine 

.

Ooops. Sorry Matt I missed your post. Oh well, awesome enough to point to twice!

Edited By Hopper on 28/02/2021 12:05:13

Edited By Hopper on 28/02/2021 12:07:07

[Alan Wood 4Participant @alanwood4]

If I am not mistaken Chris at Clickspring was a co-author. There is a reference in the Acknowledgements by CB to his Patreon patrons.

[Alan Johnson 7Participant @alanjohnson7]

I am not sure if these two YouTube articles have been mentioned here before. If they have not, then they are worth watching.

Session 1:

Session 2:

One thing that struck me with the Antikythera Mechanism is that there appears to be no wear! This leads me to hypothesise that the device was a "new" one and it had been picked up from wherever for delivery to the new owner. It was not some old relic – like say, some of the bronze and marble statues on the ship.

The ship had accommodation for wealthy passengers. It was not just a "cargo ship," so it is not unreasonable that some wealthy learned person went to see the "manufacturer" and collected a new one and was taking it home, and was going to impress his learned friends with it!

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

My guess is that the ship captain was himself the new owner, and had promised his pennyless mate to send a heap of shekels / denarii / pieces of 8 / etc as soon as he got back home. So, somewhere on the shores of the Mediterranean, an inventor sits, with tears in his eyes and nothing in his wallet, waiting, so patiently, as he looks towards Greece …

Cheers, Tim

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Well that has cost me an afternoon watching all of the videos and reading the paper!

I had seen the TV documentary from a few years ago before, so to see a replica under construction by a superb craftsman was well worth it.

[Geoff GParticipant @geoffg]

Gents, a search for "dave goodchild antikythera" will bring up info on the machine (working) that my son made . . . . out of wood, proving that metal is not the only material for precision mechanisms. See particularly the Youtube offerings. All of the components were cut on a jig saw, inluding the countless gear teeth and even the bevel gears.

A lot more clever than his proud dad!

Geoff

[JourneymanParticipant @journeyman]

Geoff G. That's a superb bit of work. Like the YouTube video so I've added it below for other to enjoy without searching.

John

[Geoff GParticipant @geoffg]

Thank you for the link, John. All very technical, this internet stuff – it's not only my son who is cleverer than me!

Geoff

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

This device is a gift that keeps giving.

It's remarkable how much 'machinery' was around in those times, and interesting to speculate what we don't know about.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Geoff G on 01/03/2021 15:16:11:

Gents, a search for "dave goodchild antikythera" will bring up info on the machine (working) that my son made . . . . out of wood, proving that metal is not the only material for precision mechanisms. See particularly the Youtube offerings. All of the components were cut on a jig saw, inluding the countless gear teeth and even the bevel gears.

A lot more clever than his proud dad!

Geoff

That is outstanding.

A good candidate for 3D printing, I wonder? Less elegant but a way to eplore the device.

Neil

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

On the wear question, as I understand it this wasn't a clock but really a calendar or calculator, so it wouldn't have been running all the time with load on the pivots like a clock, but possibly just wound on a day every day. And of course it was probably brand new!

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 02/03/2021 12:03:51:

It's remarkable how much 'machinery' was around in those times, and interesting to speculate what we don't know about.

Sadly, most of the technology was made from organic materials which have failed to survive the millenia except in some special, usually anaerobic, circumstances. When I visited Flag Fear Peterborough the thing that impressed me most was the shears, but not the article itself. It was the nicely made box the shears were kept in. These people had "stuff" just like us – probably kept on a sideboard which has long rotted away.

Similarly they had pumps and machines made from wood and leather and, a bit later, iron which also largely disappears over time. Flag Fen also preserved the oldest wheel found in the UK from about 1000 years BCE. I think we have to careful not to underestimate the past – it didn't all a happen in the UK in the 18th and 19th centuries!

Stay well,

Rod

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 02/03/2021 12:45:35

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Whoops editing problems

Edited By Roderick Jenkins on 02/03/2021 12:47:15

[egaParticipant @ega]

Right now, your image appears to have rotted away!

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Some time ago I found a Solidworks 3D model of the Antikythera and managed to translate it so that anyone who uses Onshape (free) can access it here:

Antikythera model

Hope that works.

Russell

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