Another way to enjoy your hobby

[SteambuffParticipant @steambuff]

See my previous post

This is quoted from section 3 of their T&C on Posted Content.

Any Content provided by you by, for example, posting messages to bulletin boards or chat forums, uploading files, inputting data, or engaging in any other form of communication through this Website, although owned by you, is subject to a royalty-free, perpetual, non-exclusive, unrestricted, world-wide licence allowing MyTimeMedia to use, distribute, copy, sub-license, adapt, transmit, publicly perform or display any such content. You agree to irrevocably and unconditionally waive on your behalf in perpetuity in respect of such Content the benefit of any provision of law known as moral rights of authors or any similar law in any country.

Dave

[JoParticipant @jo]

Russell: Yes the Ts&C's as written give MyTimeMedia both the permission to exploit and, the way that have worded the Ts&Cs, the legal responsibility for anything that is posted here or that they choose to exploit using other media. It is part of the reason they get so twitchy about inflammatory posts being made.

Jo

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 22/08/2013 08:00:37:It would be interesting to see some comment from someone with some legal knowledge!

Russell.

That should be easy.

Most forum members are bar room lawyers

[Patrick AstillParticipant @patrickastill74203]

Dear Springbok Bob,

I think that's a little uncalled for and very rude in any public forum.

There is no automatic link to social media outside this forum or outside of the photo albums. My advice would be that if you are suspicious of something, then please don't post.

I'm sorry you don't feel that I can conduct my business in a professional way – such a shame when I am working to promote the hobby that you all love so much.

Patrick

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hello JasonB

Your reply as a moderator to "Springbock", Bob's (Yes….rather direct) post. was harsh in my view, not businesslike.

Not withstanding the rights and claims ambit or otherwise that the forum terms and conditions try to assert; conditions which may or may not conflict with the common law rights of the forum members. One instance being the UK Human rights act of 1998 and the right of privacy for individuals.

I think a less forceful and blunt response was in order.

I note Bob has made over 750 contributions to this forum. Clearly a conscientious and sincere effort to model making and light engineering. He deserves better. It is regular posters that make up the backbone of a forum, these are the people that attract "Views", and these viewers eyes are are what the paid advertisers on this site need to attract business.

I am assuming that you have discussed your written response with senior management, and that they support your wording. If not may I refer you to the following:

Moderation is also a principle of life. In ancient Greece, the temple of Apollo at Delphi bore the inscription Meden Agan (μηδὲν ἄγα&nu – 'Nothing in excess'. Doing something "in moderation" means not doing it excessively.

It is also clear from the contributions to this thread (and many others in the past on this members only forum) that the members are not happy with the conditions wording. Maybe their ire was tempered by the fact that the actual use of material has been up to now limited.

The new? plans to use social media posted by Patrick Astill at the start of this thread have met with indifference at best, some views are quite hostile. Many members do not want their names or material posted at other sites.

Maybe The planned update to the webpage might include an "opt out box" in the members details that would enable those members to decline the use of their material outside this forum. This is a common practise on the net at numerous commercial sites where you have to register for entry.

It is time this issue was sorted.

Yours Faithfully
John McNamara

Edited By John McNamara on 22/08/2013 10:35:24

Edited By John McNamara on 22/08/2013 10:40:39

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Patrick Astill on 13/08/2013 11:20:45:

Hello – I’m looking after the 'social media' for Model Engineer and Model Engineers’ Workshop and was wondering if you were a member of any of the most popular sites.

.

Patrick is evidently facing an uphill struggle with this; but he is asking a perfectly reasonable "market research" question … so let's return to his opening line, and give him a simple answer.

Answering for myself:

No, I am not a member of any of the most popular 'social media' sites.

MichaelG.

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2013 10:29:14:Patrick is evidently facing an uphill struggle with this; but he is asking a perfectly reasonable "market research" question … so let's return to his opening line, and give him a simple answer.

Yes, I'm a member of facebook but only to keep in touch with my children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. I have no wish or intention of using it for anything else.

Twitter – no.

Pinterest – what on Earth is that?

This forum alone is great but could be publicised more widely.

Russell.

P.S. John, It's lunchtime here and I've just been called to the bar

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

My answer is also simple and quite straigt forward, I am not a member of any "social media" site and what is more, never will be. No further comments will be made.

[JAParticipant @ja]

Patrick

Since this is a market research exercise by a respected organisation:

I am not a member of Facebook, Twitter etc. I see no reason to do so, I like carving lumps of metal etc, trying to make models, messing around with old vehicles and using them. This is for my own satisfaction and, if I want to, I can show the fruits of my labour by using the items or displaying them in public. I may even meet real people.

I will go as far as saying I used to have doubts about forums in general but I have found this one some use with its members giving encouragement and words of wisedom.

JA

[Bill StarlingParticipant @billstarling10428]

This topic has raised so much comment that I can't resist adding my tuppence worth. Although I am a regular reader of the forum and beneficiary of the wisdom of others, I usually feel I lack the experience to contribute. However please don't go down the populist route of 'social media', particularly now that it is becoming so discredited. Most of the discussion on here is seeking or offering practical advice, not idle chatter. By all means try to involve more people in model engineering, but not by lowering your own standards and alienating your core followers. The reources would be better spent correcting the frequently mentioned snags with this website, which might of itself bring in more people.

Bill

PS Thanks to all those who continue to educate me.

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Bill

Thank you – words of wisdom indeed.

Regards

Norman

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by John McNamara on 22/08/2013 10:24:45:

Hello JasonB

Your reply as a moderator to "Springbock", Bob's (Yes….rather direct) post. was harsh in my view, not businesslike.

Why should my reply be business like? I am just a forum member like anybody else but have been asked to act as a moderator which I do on a voluntary basis. I am not employed by MTM. If I make a specific post as a Moderator I tend to sign it "Jason (Mod) "

Not withstanding the rights and claims ambit or otherwise that the forum terms and conditions try to assert; conditions which may or may not conflict with the common law rights of the forum members. One instance being the UK Human rights act of 1998 and the right of privacy for individuals.

The way I personally see it is if you wanted privicy why post on a public forum and by doing so agree to others having rights over what you have posted

I think a less forceful and blunt response was in order.

Thats upto you and your View and I'm entitled to mine

I note Bob has made over 750 contributions to this forum. Clearly a conscientious and sincere effort to model making and light engineering. He deserves better. It is regular posters that make up the backbone of a forum, these are the people that attract "Views", and these viewers eyes are are what the paid advertisers on this site need to attract business.

Unfortunately this forum does not have the facility to "view members posts" if it did and you were to read through the 750+ you may have a different view, I have PM'd you some reasons as I don't feel it right to post on the open forum

I am assuming that you have discussed your written response with senior management, and that they support your wording. If not may I refer you to the following:

As above I have no links to MTM so cannot discuss my replies with them and why would I as it was not a Moderators issue just stating the obvious one forum member to another.

Moderation is also a principle of life. In ancient Greece, the temple of Apollo at Delphi bore the inscription Meden Agan (μηδὲν ἄγα&nu – 'Nothing in excess'. Doing something "in moderation" means not doing it excessively.

Believe me my reply was moderate to what I was thinking

……………………………………………………

Jason (replying as a forum member not a Moderator)

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Way to go Jason

John S.

Posting as a bald headed, grumply old twat and not even as a forum member, let alone a moderator.

PS> Forgot the fat prefix.

[JoParticipant @jo]

Yes there seems to be a bit of confusion here where employees of the website owners are now apearing left right and centre as "moderators". In my view this is not correct and degrading the excellent work that the likes of JasonB and John Stevenson are doing for us out of the goodness of their hearts.

On other forums there is a clearer distinction made between owners/employees and moderators, maybe they should make it clearer here.

Jo

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hello Jason

I was unaware that you were not employed by the magazine publishers. That was a mistake on my part. 3000+ posts is a big community effort on your part.

I do not know Bob Aka "Springbok" personally and have never spoken to him and was simply responding to the post at hand. Yes "view members posts" should be added to the wish list.

My reason for posting was an attempt to prompt management into addressing some of the issues that were mentioned. it was not intended to attack you directly rather a wake up for the company. Unfortunately you were swept up in the argument. Knowing now that you are not connected to the company it would have been worded differently. It is surprising that the management has not addressed the failures of the website, it has generated a very large number of complaining threads over several years.

The terms and conditions in my view are not in the spirit of the site, it is a sharing place, The management make money from selling the magazine and the site advertising. I strongly believe they are symbiotic to each other, damaging one damages the other.

I fail to understand why they wish to claim unilateral ownership of users postings. Why upset the website membership and the magazine readership? Gee…. they are the companies bread and butter.
Hence my suggestion of an opt out clause. What would the loss of the value to the company of a posters material be? Particularly when you compare that perceived value (SIC); to the bad blood and enmity generated as evidenced by many forum posters posts.

Regards
John

Edited By John McNamara on 22/08/2013 14:39:08

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by JasonB on 22/08/2013 08:12:20:

Your use of this Website constitutes your agreement to all such terms………………………….."

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure that a statement like that means anything. There is no guanantee that a user of the site has read it and thus had an opertunity to agree or disagree. Besides which it is hidden away in a link in the small print that few people read.

Russell

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Just my opinion
The heat in this thread ( and “new website templates”) is probably due partly to the “unrest” thar the new subs/. Demise of the free archive, has stirred up , coupled with the frustrations of the forum software……
If the content of the facebook page is going to continue in the vein it has so far.. ( advertising bill board)..then the regulars here can safely ignore it.
If the publishers think that advertising to hopefully a much wider audience via social media will be less trouble than the maintance ( yes I am sure there is some even if it doesn’t always show) of this site/forum then maybe thats for them to judge. .I do wonder just what arceuro as sponsors think.

Edited By jason udall on 22/08/2013 15:20:35

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Russell Eberhardt on 22/08/2013 15:05:09:

Posted by JasonB on 22/08/2013 08:12:20:

 

Your use of this Website constitutes your agreement to all such terms………………………….."

 

Hi Jason,

I'm not sure that a statement like that means anything. There is no guanantee that a user of the site has read it and thus had an opertunity to agree or disagree. Besides which it is hidden away in a link in the small print that few people read.

Russell

.

Russell,

Few people read the EULA [End User License Agreement] when they install software … but that doesn't stop it being a legal agreement.

Caveat Emptor, et Caveat Utilitor

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2013 16:41:52

[Russell EberhardtParticipant @russelleberhardt48058]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 22/08/2013 16:38:35:

Few people read the EULA [End User License Agreement] when they install software … but that doesn't stop it being a legal agreement.

Agreed, but you do usually have to tick a box to say that you agree to it.

Russell.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

As a grumpy old git of well over 70 and a lot of people on this forum have met me I stick to my WW2 guns
Bob

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Hi Patrick and welcome.

I only started following your thread this morning, but I bet your glad you didn't mention CNC machining in your opening post, as that would have really provoked a response!!!!!

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Mick
I would love one but osts thousands
Bob

[Peter TuckerParticipant @petertucker86088]

For the purposes of market research I will not be joining face book, twitter, ect.

Peter.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

As a youthful 50 year old I'm concerned about some of the opnions being expressed here, or the way tehy are being expressed.

We are all on the same side, aren't we?

Twenty years ago we all would have mocked the idea that a forum like this might take up as much of our time as reading a magazine. We would never have believed in home cnc and 3 d printers.

I think some of us are being a bit too conservative, we might not want to use 'social media' (but if so why are we on this site?)

We are like any like-minded group and suspicious of anything that might attract in others. The odd vistor who looks for advice and stumbles in gets a good welcome, but we all would worry at the idea of hundreds of GCSE students seeking 'help with their project' suddenly descending.

Truth is, in 40 years most of us will be dead and the model engineering flame will be carried on by some of today's youngsters. I wonder what they will make, but I bet the standards will be just as high. No doubt they will be equally worried that their 3-D interactive virtual club will be invaded by spotty teenagers in 2053.

Let's all relax, look around and realise that those who get the most out of model engineering interactions on facebook are as unlikely to want to be here as we want to be there – but there will be some open minded elders and inquiring younsters who make the transition.

Neil

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Jason'
If she is like the barmaid in my local she will have a verrrry welcome any time in my workshop.
Bob with a big smile. Oh do not tell the wife.
Bob

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