Another One Gone!

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Noel,

You are so right, we call them the ‘blue bag brigade’ on my road. They leave the estate behind me 2 or 3 times a day, trot off down to the local shop and come back with a blue plastic bag full of goodies, clearly none of them work but also clearly able to work but ‘we’ pay them to do sod all!

I know not all disabilities are visible but these individuals are gaming the system big time, I personally can’t understand the mentality that just takes with no thought of personal values, self worth or integrity but that’s just how I was bought up.

Tony

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1Participant @hughstewart-smith1]

Jimmy,

I’m 78 and cannot contemplate retiring! my importing and ecommerce business, Amadeal, keeps me busy 60 hours a week plus a few hours computer stuff in the evenings and weekends. I’m actually a pharmacist but also a property developer and landlord as well. I have no need whatsoever to work but I’m driven to create business – my brain ticks over all the time on how to move forward and how I can help others to do so too.

btw, to bring us back to the OP’s topic, i’ve been researching the machine tool business and expect some breaking news before long.

Hugh

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1Participant @hughstewart-smith1]

Noel,

Where my business is in a small industrial estate, there is opposite to me large unit where they are non-stop busy, the fathers that is.

It’s a garage, MOT, car hiring with around 200 cars out at a time. The sons, some go to college then come to the unit to learn the trades. All smart looking, speak very nicely and a charming to talk to – this is in East London too! Gor blimey territory.

They’re Pakistani and we’re all the best of friends. I let them park outside my units and containers and I get free MOT and low cost repairs. I also speak some Urdu now too!

Immigrants are our saviour I believe – until they catch the British Disease that it.

Hugh, Amadeal

[jimmy b]

On jimmy b Said:

UK manufacturing is alive and well!

 

…
JimB

Ah but Jim, as can be seen in other posts, that fact is not popular here!   It doesn’t appeal to a school of thought that believes old ways are the best and that nothing new is good!  Perhaps chaps who benefited from Britain’s post-WW2 industrial boom, “you’ve never had it so good”, which peaked during the 1950s before running into deep trouble during the sixties and seventies.   May be they conflate the opportunities that fuelled a boom with them having the skills and working methods of yesteryear?

Times and circumstances have changed radically.  Seems to me that the big picture forces that drive manufacturing aren’t understood. It’s easier to blame ‘them’ – politicians giving away our inventions, ‘this government’ pushing electricity prices up,  ‘Health and Safety’,  and ‘computers’ etc.  And of course blaming ‘them’ makes it possible to claim that anyone not agreeing with their analysis is ‘anti-patriotic’.

Unfortunately winding the clock back never works.  The challenge is how to deliver today, and, even more difficult, how to remain successful in future.  Manufacturing has to produce product that customers want and are prepared to pay for.  The big problem with traditional methods is that they are slow and costly.  They rely on fine materials and expensively acquired skills.   Skills that are difficult to retain because the workforce are free to look for higher paid work and better conditions elsewhere.  Not good.

Manufacturing for profit requires flexibility, adaptability and a willingness to change. Continually!  New products, new methods, automation, vertical integration, horizontal integration, economies of scale,  streamlining, out-sourcing, sub-contracting, in-sourcing and any other advantageous form of cost-cutting.    When it comes to cost-cutting, a workforce relying on expensive traditional skills is an obvious target.  Especially if that workforce is set in its ways, convinced it’s the bees-knees, and determined not to change anything.   When the need to cut costs is acute because the firm sells to customers who can get what they want from a cheaper competitor, traditional methods are likely to get the chop.

Not easy for manufacturers to stay on top. Flexibility is vital. They have to get new product to market that people will buy on time.  Vic mentions Volkswagen.  They are one of many previously successful firms currently struggling with new challenges.   In their case, other people making nicer and/or cheaper cars.  Having to produce a line of desirable electric cars.  And having been caught faking emissions data, a breach of trust that cost a fortune in reparations, Volkswagen now need to raise enormous sums of money from wary investors.   Traditional skills don’t figure in their problem at all.

Nothing simple about manufacturing, so beware making simple assumptions about what the problems really are.

Historically, British Industry was notorious for low productivity, and though considerably improved, still an issue. The problem long predates H&S and other modern inconveniences like minimum wage.  It’s always cost more to make stuff here than abroad. Why?

I think the answer is multi-faceted, but small-c conservatism was a major factor.   Having painfully acquired skills, individuals settle into reasonably paid jobs.  The work is comfortable because they know what they’re doing.  Too comfortable perhaps?  Having painfully learned skills like Imperial measure and Whitworth, along comes some know-nothing office nerd, who wants to metricate.   Well he can go spin on it!  That a change resistant workforce causes their employer to  become uncompetitive isn’t their problem!   The accountant’s warnings are irrelevant – pen-pushers know nothing compared with common-sense horny handed practitioners!  And of course, being caught by the need for change at work is extremely unpleasant, and often badly mismanaged.  I hate change because it means something is broken.  Best strategy though is to tackle the consequences head-on, not to ignore them, or to find someone else to blame.

The good news is that although large numbers of British manufacturing firms failed, the survivors are doing at least as well financially as ever.  British Industry is a success!  Although losing all those old firms and a few million jobs was painful, the awful truth was the despised service sector was subsidising a mass of underperforming industrial firms.   Once assets, too many enterprises had become anchors, making the country poorer, not richer.  Very sad, but they had to go.

Plenty of books and old newspapers cover what happened.  Read ’em rather than jumping to conclusions based on hearay and guessing.  Blaming H&S might seem obvious, but it’s not the cause!   All too often the problem isn’t “them”, it’s “us”.

Might be completely wrong but I suspect traditionalists wanting to wind the clock back in hope of bolstering British Industry may have led many to vote for a certain major change a few years ago.   Ironic, because so far, that move has done more damage to British Industry than anything else this century.  A loss in the range -3 to -15% depending on how it’s measured.  An example of the Law of Unexpected Consequences!

In a nutshell, I say it’s essential to change when things go wrong. As change is risky what needs doing requires careful consideration.  Bu that’s no excuse for bottling out.  History suggests reverting to old ways is rarely the answer, whatever wise greybeard says!  It’s because old ways failing to cover new circumstances is a common reason for change.  By all means celebrate glorious traditions but don’t for one second imagine outdated methods provide an easy answer to what’s needed.   Or that what was done in the past was superior.

Dave

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Good points Dave, though I would say that the consequences were entirely predictable and expected.  Illustrates one point, many politicians haven’t a clue about how industry or manufacturing work.

As for H&S, if you think that’s expensive, you should try having an accident!  (To paraphrase a saying from aviation.)

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

You are not alone, Noel.

Our two Grandchildren are mildly interested but lack the space in their rented accomodation for even a micro lathe.  A pity, since once started they would, find all sorts of things that can be made, repaired, or upgraded.

In twenty years time someone with manual skills will be able to name their price, because very few others will be able to screw a nut onto a bolt, if they even know what they are.

In 1977, in USA, I was told that a master plumber could name his price, (But they could work to my back of an envelope sketches!) and UK is fast approaching that.

I just hope that I am wrong

Howard

[Howard Lewis]

On Howard Lewis Said:

…

Our two Grandchildren are mildly interested but lack the space in their rented accomodation for even a micro lathe.

Not many youngsters have the time, money or space needed to set up a workshop.  I had to wait until I retired.

A pity, since once started they would, find all sorts of things that can be made, repaired, or upgraded.

Really?  I have good metalworking and electronics capability, but opportunities for repair are few and far between.  Used to patch stuff up, but modern gear isn’t repair friendly.  Radios and TVs used to be made of components you could see and manipulate; not now!  And how they worked wasn’t too difficult.  Now it is.   Such has been the improvement in manufacturing technique, that many products are hard to repair and basic skills aren’t enough.  Usually cheaper to replace than repair, the opposite of when I started,

In twenty years time someone with manual skills will be able to name their price, because very few others will be able to screw a nut onto a bolt, if they even know what they are.

Yes, there will always be a residual requirement for skills.  But that doesn’t mean there’s value in training large numbers of people.  When the need for skills drops,  people have to re-skill and do something else.   Very few jobs for Bargees, Ostlers, Riveters, Telephone Engineers,  Blacksmiths, or COBOL programmers in 2024.

I just hope that I am wrong

Howard

Not wrong, just not right!  Though having skills can create jobs, it’s more usually the other way round.  Customers needing something done create jobs, and so do the folk who persuade customers they need something new.  Chaps who expect old skills to last forever are almost always disappointed.  Although I hate change, I’ve come to understand the world doesn’t stop for me;  I have to adapt!  Of course losing old skills is a shame, but it’s the way of the world.

Dave

[Hugh Stewart-Smith 1]

On Hugh Stewart-Smith 1 Said:

Jimmy,

I’m 78 and cannot contemplate retiring! my importing and ecommerce business, Amadeal, keeps me busy 60 hours a week plus a few hours computer stuff in the evenings and weekends. I’m actually a pharmacist but also a property developer and landlord as well. I have no need whatsoever to work but I’m driven to create business – my brain ticks over all the time on how to move forward and how I can help others to do so too.

btw, to bring us back to the OP’s topic, i’ve been researching the machine tool business and expect some breaking news before long.

Hugh

Hugh,

I hope I still have your drive when I’m your age!

 

Jimb

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I will also add that the living wage, or whatever it’s being called, is just not helping.

We have seen such huge rises in this, that the gap between unskilled and skilled is closing at a frightening rate.

The latest “tax” changes are only going to make the situation worse as far as paying a skilled wage.

 

I know a few people that have literally given up a skilled job and gone for a min wage job as the stress is not there.

As for be careful what you wish for, state pensioners are expected to get taxed in 3 years……

 

JimB

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

Minimum Wage for a 37.5 hour week – £23,873.60 a year.

Living Wage for a 37.5 hour week = £24,570.00 a year.

Average rent of flat in Bristol 22/23 = £17,784 a year.

 

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I have been involved in the demise of two profitable toolmaking companies. The first was part of a group of three factories which individually were bought by a group of well known companies and we were used to supply tooling for other parts of the group as well as our original work which included plastic die and mould making for the car industry, investment die making and jig and tool making for a well known aerospace company. When the first banking problem happened the group decided to sell or close most of the manufacturing and they moved the headquarters from UK to the far east. After a while we three, One in Manchester one in Corsham and our factory in Ashfield were the remaining part of the huge ex uk part left and because of the time differance between the two locations and the lack of a buyer we were just closed down eavan though we were making a profit, and dismantled selling machinery mainly to the far east and scatering the work force far and wide.

The second was during the second banking fopar. There was a new company set up with some of the old work force  doing similar work though no investment casting tooling and robotic tooling was added to the plastic die and tooling manufacturing we were doing. Quite a few workers were set on to the new company and we started very well and expanded into the adjacent unit as we gained work from new customers. We had around 50 workers with latest machinery as well as a few older machines like deep hole boring, a few manual lathes and a small group of Bridgeport mills. All the work was going well untill the banking sector cut work for some sectors but we aquired a large order for four large tools for moulding four different versions of front grill for a well known car. These were started and made a large part of our output for factory but not the only work as we had an order to make a tool for a clear plastic seat, refurbish four tools for another well known company as well as robotic tooling making hands for robotic arms to load and remove parts for moulding machines. The four tools were delivered to the moulding company which were suplying the parts to the car manufacturer and the week after they were delivered they said they were going into administration. We needed the income from these tools as the company bank would not give us any lee way and there was insuficient money to pay the wages and they called in administrators to close down the factory or sell. There was no buyers under the economic climate at that time and although the administrators kept on a few key workers including myself it closed the next week. A month after the closure and during the auction the company which had withheld the tooling payment payed and the money was sent to the administrators too late to get the factory back. The machinery was again scattered over the globe with the likes of a special bedding press for  testing dies went to Spain, CNC mills went to India spark erodas went to Indonesia etc. All the benches for working on tools had a built in electric hoists. I decided to retire after clearing another factory of all the tooling and special things to make working on tools easyer magnetic lifters and a 5 tonne overhead gantry crane and water testing jig for flow and pressure on water cooled tools.

David

[Author]

Posts