Another One Gone!

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Yet another company is pulling out of manufacturing in the UK. This time it’s SKF Bearings in Luton that has closed its doors after a presence of 100 years. It seems Patrick Minford’s predictions are proving prescient (you will have to check that out before the political brickbats start flying!). I know some people will argue that manufacturing is thriving in the UK but I don’t actually think this is correct. We have, for example, the new Siemens and Hitachi train factories but these are really only ‘screwdriver’ operations as far as I can see. They are assembling trains with imported parts but they are not ‘actually’ manufacturing much. Maybe this doesn’t matter in the overall scheme of things, I don’t know because unlike Prof. Minford I am not an economist, but I can’t help thinking that the loss of basic manufacturing skills and knowhow can only be detrimental to the country.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Couldn’t agree more, Chris !

 

”a nation of shop-keepers” is  a much more a appropriate categorisation.

MichaelG.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Having worked in manufacturing in and around Luton all my life I am all too well aware that there is basically very little left, what a sad sad situation! My brother in law who worked for Jaguar said a few years ago that we actually produced more cars now than we did in the 70’s, who knows?

Can anyone in simple terms explain how we can survive without making and selling ‘stuff’, just buying cheap from China etc. surely cannot be sustainable for ever.

Tony

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

My first thought as far as SKF and it’s products go is to consider the reason for the Schweinfurt raids and there impact on industrial production. Who else makes ball races in the UK now ? Even the local company who made specialist roller bearings was taken over by SKF. We punched above our weight for a long time, like many empires may be we have had our day ? Noel.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Most of our Manufacturing industries were purchased long ago by Foreign companies. The withdrawal of these companies to their home base comes as no surprise to me. Especially now we are no longer part of the EU and it seems a Tariff war is about to erupt. The writing was on the wall for me with the closure of our last remaining Blast Furnaces. It would not surprise me if these never get replaced, the Chinese only have to say the project is un-economic and we are sunk. It would have been prudent to replace the Blast furnaces before closing them down.

We are fast approaching a point where we will be unable to defend ourselves.

Regards

Gray.

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I believe a lot of it is down to our blind following of the US claims culture. Pretty much every company has in house compliance and legal team now to try to help with not being sued .. by anyone.

Go round Europe, they have the generally the same H&S laws as us and see how they operate. Its a different world.

The simple fact now is it is so costly to make or do anything in the UK now that almost any other country can do it significantly cheaper. Everything split apart, every part wanting every risk assessment and method statement and insurances (the later being now so expensive that most small firms simply cant get involved)  before anyone can do anything then there is a cue of people telling you you cant do it. Not helping to come up with a solution just ‘No you cant do that I’m not happy with it’ .. but why… ‘I’m not happy with it’ ??

Lots of companies now are so risk averse that they want to out source everything that may involve risk – need a light bulb changing that doesn’t even require steps (waist height)? maintenance prohibited from doing it, get an electrician in.

A local firm is fabricating and doing some of the install on the great western rail line from London. They travel up oxford way in the early afternoon, couple of hours kip then on site for say 10PM. They cant actually do anything, along with all the Rail guys for 2 – 3 hours until someone agrees they can go to the side of the track. They will get stopped on a regular basis for someone to check they are in the right place / not going past a fence / someone just isn’t happy / other guys want tea break etc. The most work they have carried out in a night was almost 2 hours but regularly it is nothing at all because someone hasn’t spoken to someone so isn’t happy that they are doing what they are supposed to be doing and his check box isn’t ticked.

They are still being paid (night rate), the company is still being paid handsomely etc

I’m certainly not anti H&S but this is nothing to do with H&S, we have generated a hugely lucrative industry out of it thanks to the claims culture.

If you were a company like SKF and it had become so cost prohibitive to operate in the UK what would you do?

 

Sorry, anyone else want the box??

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I regret to say that a browse through the SKF website puts the Luton operation into perspective:

https://investors.skf.com/

MichaelG.

.

Ref. https://investors.skf.com/en/press/skf-confirms-closure-luton-factory-2165486

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

Who else makes ball races in the UK now ?

There is a Koyo bearing factory outside Barnsley that appeared to be still operating when I passed it earlier in the year, and HB Bearings (who bought out Gamet) in Honley nr. Huddersfield that I know of reasonable locally.

Nigel B.

[Tony Pratt 1]

On Tony Pratt 1 Said:

Having worked in manufacturing in and around Luton all my life I am all too well aware that there is basically very little left, what a sad sad situation! My brother in law who worked for Jaguar said a few years ago that we actually produced more cars now than we did in the 70’s, who knows?

Can anyone in simple terms explain how we can survive without making and selling ‘stuff’, just buying cheap from China etc. surely cannot be sustainable for ever.

Tony

According to the politicians of the 80s, manufacturing was so ‘trade’ and we can make our living by service industries, cutting each other’s hair, selling each other insurance and so on. They seem not to understand wealth creation means you have to actually add value to something. And as others have said, assembling kits of parts made abroad doesn’t bring the ability to design and make the bits. I think I must be getting old! End of rant

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Douglas Adams covered a lot of this ‘hairdresser business’ rather well

… in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

MichaelG.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I saw something the other day suggesting that Volkswagen are in big trouble. Three factories closing, €200 Billion in debt and sales collapsing in their biggest market. Meanwhile Chinese car maker BYD are to build a massive factory in Turkey.

Then there are Robots. Unsure of the current prediction on that one but it’s probably only a matter of time.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

Douglas Adams covered a lot of this ‘hairdresser business’ rather well

… in The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

MichaelG.

Including the advice to carry a towel wherever you go.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I worked, briefly in Belgium, one man spoke french, one spoke Flemish and I spoke English . The french speaker would ONLY use french, The Flemish fellow had some English and I had a bit of french and Flemish. No yellow jackets, gloves or steel toecaps, we were moving steel weighing over a ton per sheet by crane, what would our HSE boys have made of it ? This situation was quite normal over there, your safety was your responsibility NOT some one who had NO idea as to what or how the job needed to be done in an office 100 miles away.

I still have all my fingers and toes ! Noel.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I’m not sure how people being injured or killed at work would help the economy. Not putting useless jobsworth in charge of H&S would be a good idea, it’s the foreman’s job. In my dealings with HSE both professionally and as secretary of ME club I always found them very helpful, not obstructive at all. They are after the cowboys, not the people who are trying not to kill or maim.

[Vic]

On Vic Said:

I saw something the other day suggesting that Volkswagen are in big trouble. Three factories closing, €200 Billion in debt and sales collapsing in their biggest market. Meanwhile Chinese car maker BYD are to build a massive factory in Turkey.

Then there are Robots. Unsure of the current prediction on that one but it’s probably only a matter of time.

Also Cariad, the software division of VW is a disaster. They delayed new cars launch with up to 2 years because of unstable software. Porsche tried to get rid of Cariad OS and switched to Android auto.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Being way out-of-touch with this stuff, I had to look-up CARIAD

[ how dare they abuse a nice Welsh word ? ]

https://cariad.technology/de/en/news/stories/vw-os-software-platform-explained.html

MichaelG.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

When Britain made things, we were “The workshop of the world”.

Politicians gave away our inventions, and convinced us that shuffling paper did not mean getting dirty hands to prosper.

When times get tough, any foreign owned business will curtail or close its off shore factories.

It is only patriotism, which is a dirty word in UK.

Way back in 1977 spent a little time in USA. Was told that a master plumber could name his price.

But they understood and were happy to work to my back of an envelope sketches.

Now being able to distinguish between a fine thread and a coarse one, let alone between a LH or a RH, is regarded as high tech!

Model Engineering and the preservationists are the very few places where traditional skills remain, and can still function when nthe computer crashes. Compuers are incredibly fast (Except in my bank!) but have no initiative.  Maybe AI will cure that, then watch out human race!

Howard

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

Being way out-of-touch with this stuff, I had to look-up CARIAD

[ how dare they abuse a nice Welsh word ? ]

https://cariad.technology/de/en/news/stories/vw-os-software-platform-explained.html

MichaelG.

I had two recent conversations with a breakdown driver and a lorry mechanic. The one had no time for European cars and found Japanese the most reliable, the other was rude about VW.

I hope the software industry never call anything acushla!

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

They’re auctioning the SKF factory machinery here:

https://www.surplex.com/en/al/4/skf-uk-limited-complete-bearing-manufacturing-facility-auction-1-7256.html?activeLots-page=1

There’s a couple of nice looking Myford 254’s, Fobco & Meddings drills and a Bridgeport that may be of interest to people on here. There may be a few other bits that may be of interest, pedestal grinders etc., but I can’t see any small tooling lots in the auction catalogue. The auction ends on 19/11/2024.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

NSK still make bearings in Newark upon Trent  Nottinghamshire. Was Ransom Hoffman and Pollard.

David

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

I think having the most expensive electricity in the world in order to subsidise windmills etc for net zero dreams (nightmares) must also come into the equation. This government seems to have plans to destroy the UK jobs market.

Alan

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Looking at the auction listing for SKF machinery, Strange how the prices, ALL priced in ‘Es’, and terminology has been modernised. Swivel Benders used to be call Box and Pan folders?

I always find in hilarious when people complain about the demise of the once “Workshop of the world”. I’m old enough to remember politically incorrect terms like ‘Jap Cr*p” – – and look what happened. It has been bandied about on another forum that we didn’t keep our eyes on what other people were doing. We did but SOME had the head up the a**e attitude that British was best and the fact that thanks to ‘Empire’ and ‘Commonwealth’ we had guaranteed worldwide markets to distribute, in some cases, absolute c**p to fuel personal greed.

My working years covered employment in Mechanical, Electrical and Electronic design and manufacturing and from the 60s onwards it became quite apparent that Joe public wanted the most value from the least monetary outlet in both sales AND purchasing, – – and you can also include the term EFFORT into that equation.

Not to worry though, we can satisfy our ‘WANTS’ (not NEEDS) desires with Aliexpress and Temu.

Regards   Ian

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

“I always find in hilarious when people complain about the demise of the once “Workshop of the world”. I’m old enough to remember politically incorrect terms like ‘Jap Cr*p” – – and look what happened. It has been bandied about on another forum that we didn’t keep our eyes on what other people were doing. We did but SOME had the head up the a**e attitude that British was best and the fact that thanks to ‘Empire’ and ‘Commonwealth’ we had guaranteed worldwide markets to distribute, in some cases, absolute c**p to fuel personal greed.”

I have to agree. Long forgotten in the annals of political history by most people is the battle that raged in this country prior to WW1, every bit as bitter as that during the Brexit referendum, but then between the ‘Free Traders’ and the ‘Tariff Reformers’. In fact it was this confrontation that prompted Churchill to defect from the Tories to the then Liberal Unionists. The Tariff Reformers triumphed and erected a tariff barrier around what was then the British Empire thereby guaranteeing a protected market for British goods. By diminishing the need for British manufacturers to improve efficiency through investment and modernisation, it could be argued that the seeds of industrial decline were, even then, being sown. With the diminished incentive to invest and a guaranteed advantage in Empire markets is probably the main reason British manufacturers were persevering with clapped out plant and archaic labour practices well into the 1970’s, although the last vestiges of Tariff Reform disappeared under the post-war General Agreement on Tariffs & Trade (GATT).

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

UK manufacturing is alive and well!

 

I speak as someone that is very much involved in engineering. Our company does bring things back to the UK for manufacture, in our own companies, in turn supporting a vast supply chain.

 

The headlines are very much negative in relation to UK manufacturing, rarely providing a positive news report.

 

Reading the above does tend to give the impression that we have no manufacturing that does not involve global brands.

 

Yes, the main skilled labour pool is not very healthy. 40 years ago, a 60 year old man (and yes, it was men) would not have been retrained as younger people were in plentiful supply. We have taken on men (yes it is men again) in their late 60’s, oldest was 69, because we can’t get anyone else! I have witnessed 18 and 19 year olds coming for jobs and having headphones on, texting during an interview etc!

I’m 57 now and plan to work into my 70’s. I have pensions that would have allowed me to finish at 50 due to my ill health, but I am from that rare breed that actually enjoys work and have no wish to have mess around in my shed just to fill the waking hours. I know quite a few that do this…..

Just chucking in my two pence worth…..

 

JimB

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I’m with you on what you say Jim. The last 40 odd years have created a generation or 2 of youngsters who have little idea of the world of work, some see no need to. I had close  friends who were training as teachers in the 70s and I could see the coming problems in education then. As a lad I looked up to tradesmen as the people who REALLY knew, now the likes of me are just old fools.

I’m much older than you, but still work, because I enjoy it, I seldom find time to go to the shed, but also because I’m the only one who knows the machines and with one exception there are no youngsters who want to learn. What will happen when I’m gone ?

Ah well ! Noel.

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