(Another) Mini Lathe Speed Controller Problem

[Philip Coupland 3Participant @philipcoupland3]

An epilogue…

It turned out that the motor was damaged too, so I decided to adopt a suggestion made on the forum to fit a sewing machine servo type motor instead. This was cheap and not hard to do and has permitted me to upgrade from the feeble 400W motor to a 750W unit. The speed controller supplied for the sewing machine works well too.

I haven’t finished the installation yet, there being some bodywork and other things to do but testing it today I found it worked very well. In fact, together with the new roller bearings for the headstock spindle the lathe is transformed. For example, parting off, which was usually a horrible experience, was done very nicely.

[MikeKParticipant @mikek40713]

Wow, I didn't think sewing machine motors were that big. I have a typical sewing machine and the motor is quite small.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

These are made for industrial sewing machines used in vast numbers to make clothes, quite different power demands from your domestic Singer…

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

With regard to keeping swarf out of the control board, there should be a "rubber" grommet to fit in the slot around the Leadscrew.

Arc Euro list it as C3-256 priced at £3 (plus postage )

If you have not got one, it would be worth fitting one to reduce the risk of expensive failures.

Howard

[Philip Coupland 3Participant @philipcoupland3]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 04/03/2022 15:12:00:

With regard to keeping swarf out of the control board, there should be a "rubber" grommet to fit in the slot around the Leadscrew.

Arc Euro list it as C3-256 priced at £3 (plus postage )

If you have not got one, it would be worth fitting one to reduce the risk of expensive failures.

Howard

Hi Howard, I’ve no longer got the control board installed. Although I intend to do a little more work to protect the workings from swarf, the Jack sewing machine motor and ancillaries are all well sealed, much better than the original lathe set up.

Edited By Philip Coupland 3 on 04/03/2022 19:36:47

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Philip, I'm thinking that one of the industrial sewing machine motors would be ideal to put on my X1 mill. Please could you say which actual model you bought as there seem to be two or three different versions.?

I wonder if any have adjustable accel/decel times like a VFD…..

Ian P

[Philip Coupland 3Participant @philipcoupland3]

Posted by Ian P on 07/03/2022 17:13:31:

Philip, I'm thinking that one of the industrial sewing machine motors would be ideal to put on my X1 mill. Please could you say which actual model you bought as there seem to be two or three different versions.?

I wonder if any have adjustable accel/decel times like a VFD…..

Ian P

It’s a Jack 563A – available in the UK for around £150.

I don’t know the answer to the question about the adjustability but there are a few videos on YouTube.

[Clock polisherParticipant @clockpolisher]

Good evening,

I fitted a Husuper 550w sewing machine servo motor to my Unimat Sl lathe many months ago and have nothing but praise for it. The same company also does a 750w version. I bought it from Amazon for less than £100 with free 3 day delivery.

The controller has approximately 30 user defined settings like maximum speed, acceleration time, motor braking and motor power.

There is also a section for a PID regulator section.

I can photocopy and post a full list if you require, just not tonight.

regards,

David

[HuubParticipant @huub]

Posted by Philip Coupland 3 on 16/02/2022 18:12:07:

However, we are not quite there yet. When the motor was reinstalled and the drive belt fitted, I found that it would not speed up more than a little. It will certainly be encountering some more resistance than previously because of the new roller bearings fitted and perhaps the new metal high-low gears that I’ve replaced the plastic ones with. But the bearings haven’t been over loaded.

New (roller) bearings will take some time to run smooth. You should run them (no load) at a low speed and increase the speed by small steps until you reach the max speed. This process should take at least an hour and it will improve the life time of the bearings. The bearing will get warm (not hot) and this heat will let the grease go to all corners. After this initial run, it will take hours before the new bearing will run very smooth.

You should check how much force it takes to turn the spindle by hand. It should be a bit higher then before swapping the bearing and changing the gear, but no more than that.

I also suspect that the motor doesn't get enough power and that there was more damage than just a power resistor.

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Clock polisher on 07/03/2022 19:40:35:

Good evening,

The controller has approximately 30 user defined settings like maximum speed, acceleration time, motor braking and motor power.

There is also a section for a PID regulator section.

I can photocopy and post a full list if you require,

regards,

David

Can I see it?

If it is not to many pages Your album here will do

Regards

Niels

[Clock polisherParticipant @clockpolisher]

Good evening,

I have uploaded the four page manual for the motor to my album.

regards,

David

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Thanks for taking pictures and posting the manual, its contents are better than I expected.

Earlier today I ordered a HuSuper 550W from Amazon (less than £100) and will post my experience here when I get it.

Ian P

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Clock polisher on 08/03/2022 17:12:46:

Good evening,

I have uploaded the four page manual for the motor to my album.

regards,

David

 

Thank You.It is same leaflet as for both my 600W and 1500 W version.

I have really tried to change ramp up and down speed and have not been succesfull.

When some reader here succeds please make a Youtube.

I seem to remember that programing a HuanYang was difficult as well

The order of adjustments was not unimportant.

Maybe same procedure here.

Do not fool around index P4 step and we will not destroy anything.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 08/03/2022 20:12:00

[Clock polisherParticipant @clockpolisher]

Good evening Niels,

Are you wanting to control the motor from an external source, such as a computer or CNC set-up?

If so you may be able to use the 0-5 volt signal supplied to the Hall Effect Sensor in the foot control. The Sensor must modify this voltage in some way and feed it back to the controller to allow it to alter the motor speed.

I do not have anywhere near enough knowledge to suggest how this could be done but this forum is full of people who will be able to suggest a solution.

regards,

David

Edited By Clock polisher on 09/03/2022 19:46:13

Edited By Clock polisher on 09/03/2022 19:46:33

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

I have now had a first look at the 'Husuper 550w sewing machine servo motor' (£91) that came this morning via Amazon. Nowhere on the box, leaflet or the kit itself does it show the motor rating so I'm not really sure what I have.

First impression is favourable, plugged it together and powered it up and its very quiet. The supplied speed control device might be fine for a sewing machine foot pedal but its entirely unsuitable for use on a lathe or mill as it is. There is no conventional potentiometer but instead uses magnet and Hall effect sensor. I have not investigated the circuitry yet but need to put a warning here in case anyone is thinking of replacing the Hall sensor with a pot.

These sewing machine servo motors operate direct off the mains and have no isolation. In particular the Hall sensor (inherently a low voltage device) and its associated wiring could be at mains potential

Ideally I would like to have stop, start, forward, reverse and speed control on a pendant (as a typical VFD installation) so will look at ways of modifying the control circuitry to add galvanic isolation (and NVR too).

Ian P

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Good morning David

I have given my much modified 180 lathe with sewing machine motor to a new home,so I am not directly involved as my present 250 has a HuanYang and a 3 phase squirrel cage motor.

My main problem with my sewing machine motor was that cable between motor and Hall box was very short.

Direction and max speed is ordered from the converter panel very easy and fast and the Hall arm works as the clutch handle on old single phase Myfords.

These motors are used by millions and if fatality was an issue it is solved.I think

 

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 12/03/2022 05:39:06

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

Lots of industrial speed controller aren't mains isolated – for example the KBE one I have. Pots designed to provide isolation between the wiper & track and the shaft/housing, and often the shaft is nylon. Replacing a Hall controller with a pot probably isn't straightforward.

[Ian PParticipant @ianp]

Posted by John Haine on 12/03/2022 09:22:31:

Lots of industrial speed controller aren't mains isolated – for example the KBE one I have. Pots designed to provide isolation between the wiper & track and the shaft/housing, and often the shaft is nylon. Replacing a Hall controller with a pot probably isn't straightforward.

Big big difference between industrial speed controllers and these sewing machine motors!

Its a while since I have used one but a system component like the KBE motor drivers comes complete with a detailed user manual with probably pages of installation information with more than a few carrying safety warnings. KBE driver units are intended to be installed in full accordance with KBE's documentation. I do know that KB sell a piggy back PCB that gives Galvanic isolation to the i/o signals.

Whilst there is s CE logo on this sewing machine motor there is none on the controller itself and I very much doubt it could ever be made to comply.

Ian P

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Posted by Niels Abildgaard on 08/03/2022 20:06:52:

Posted by Clock polisher on 08/03/2022 17:12:46:

Good evening,

I have uploaded the four page manual for the motor to my album.

regards,

David

 

Thank You.It is same leaflet as for both my 600W and 1500 W version.

I have really tried to change ramp up and down speed and have not been succesfull.

When some reader here succeds please make a Youtube.

I seem to remember that programing a HuanYang was difficult as well

The order of adjustments was not unimportant.

Maybe same procedure here.

Do not fool around index P4 step and we will not destroy anything.

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 08/03/2022 20:12:00

 

 

Heureka

Program step 08 has to be set at 0 and motor coasts to stop.

Much nicer than before where it happened instantaneously.

The Hall sensor thing is interesting  and I cannot se how it can be dangerous unless the three lead cable is penetrated by a sharp metal edge.

I plan to maneuvre it with a hand-twist gearchange from a moutain bike with quick release.

When belt is really thigth I cannot stop the spindle 125mm flange doing 50 rpm with leather gloves on

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/06/2022 18:25:39

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/06/2022 18:27:43

Edited By Niels Abildgaard on 19/06/2022 18:30:07

[Niels AbildgaardParticipant @nielsabildgaard33719]

Quite some tests of how to instal and use the sewing machine Hall sensor has been made before I found a solution I am satisfied with.

A high resolution picture here:

Sewing motor control

Only problem is that the link below picture offers something much better and cheaper.

[Steve Clark 1Participant @steveclark1]

Can anyone please tell me which colour wires go where on the three terminals on this board. thanks. Steve

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/YEUAAOSwhyFj-PFN/s-l1600.jpg

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