Announcement re: Model Engineers’ Workshop

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

The issue of copyright seems to be a little off topic.

All I do know is that the last time the agreement was drawn up, several amendments had to be made to ensure that the copyright reverted back to the author after the then MTM had their first publishing rights. The first draft was torn up by quite a few regular contributors, demeaning it to be unreasonable.

It will be interesting to see the new agreement, as, if an attempt is made by the management to resurrect the first draft, it would be wrong. Hopefully they will get it right. Lets just wait and see.

By the way, congratulations on your new appointment Neil and good luck for your new ventures David.

Ketan at ARC.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 12/02/2014 11:11:33:

Mention was made earlier about the article on a miniature drilling machine by Stephen Bondfield. I don't wish to be too critical but I seem to have been waiting for ever to find out how the motor is wired up, which is my main interest in the article. I think this is an example of a series which has had too many parts and rather too many drawings. The current issue (213) has hardly moved things on ( more drawings and no words )

.

Doug,

Having just re-read the articles, I have to agree with you

I have a feeling that the drawings in No.213 are the end of the series, and that Fig.3 in Part_1 might be all we get by way of a wiring description.

The supplier's website lists this motor, which I presume to be what was used.

These modern Brushless Motors are extraordinary, and I will probably use a small-ish one for something, sometime; but I think this particular set-up is out of my price range for an alternative drive in the workshop.

MichaelG.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

213 was the end of the series although there will be a further article on a tachometer/speed readout.

I will ask Stephen to expand on the wiring but it is up to Neil whether he publishes it.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 13/02/2014 10:36:21

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

David,

Thanks for that

MichaelG.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 12/02/2014 20:53:30:

The issue of copyright seems to be a little off topic.

All I do know is that the last time the agreement was drawn up, several amendments had to be made to ensure that the copyright reverted back to the author after the then MTM had their first publishing rights. The first draft was torn up by quite a few regular contributors, demeaning it to be unreasonable.

It will be interesting to see the new agreement, as, if an attempt is made by the management to resurrect the first draft, it would be wrong. Hopefully they will get it right. Lets just wait and see.

By the way, congratulations on your new appointment Neil and good luck for your new ventures David.

Ketan at ARC.

Correction: "deeming it to be unreasonable", not 'demeaning'…couldn't find the edit post function. I guess the edit function goes away after a few posts have been made.

Ketan at ARC.

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

That's a pity if there is going to be no more information at the moment about wiring an outrunner brushless motor. As I understand it the wiring, power supply and speed control are quite complex and need further explanation if these motors are being considered for a project. I am sure a further article by the author, which dealt with this, would be of benefit to others.

Doug

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

With regard to Douglas’s earlier comment re drilling machine/brushless motor. This is exactly what I am talking about. Never mind about the drilling machine. The article should be about the motor.

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 13/02/2014 12:27:27

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

This is not the first time this has happened.

There was an article about fitting a DRO inside the top slide on a Myford and it gave no indication either in the text or photo's what unit was fitted, where from or how much it cost.

To all intents and purposes the article was a waste of space as he could have described something that could not be built or was not available.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

congratulations Neil on your new job. I'm sure yo will make a success of it with your down to earth outlook and wide span of knowledge.
I too have been looking at MEW in the book stalls over the last few months waiting for the issue with information on the motor. While looking for information on these motors I came across this link. It illustrates their very high power to weight ratio.

Les.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

I'll poke my head over the parapet here as John has reminded me of one thing I've often found odd in MEW – a strange reticence to mention prices. They matter for some of us… and I've never understood why some writers seem so shy about them? Obviously prices will change over time but the date they're relevant for is on the front of the mag. Especially for less usual items. I recall an article about fitting a magnetic clutch for a lathe – interesting but without a price no idea whether it was even a possibility to look into.

A few other hopefully constructive thoughts:

– I always liked reading the 'workshop visit' articles – always interesting to see people's set-ups, storage ideas and projects. Would welcome some more of those. Now here's a good place for pseudonyms as there are legitimate concerns if identifiable.

– There have been some great 'techniques' articles recently – e.g. metal blackening, injection moulding (tank tracks), and the fly press. More welcome – bringing new techniques (affordably) to the home workshop so as to be able to do new things is just what makes the mag worth subscribing to for me.

– Wonder if there'd be interest in a 'featured machine tool or machine type' each issue – what it's used for, main makers names, a bit of history (from lathes.co.uk?), how much they go for nowadays, things to watch for if buying, etc? Old hands might know it all but newbies maybe not… but they'll see this ex-industrial stuff at secondhand dealers (including the various advertisers or come across it cheap on Ebay and background might help… e.g. old English bench/pillar drills (Union, Fobco, Pollard, Elliott etc), high speed bench drills, Senior/Alexander/Deckel/other interesting milling or multipurpose machines, gear hobbers, filing machines, presses (broaching, toggle, rack, fly), metal folders (Edwards etc), shapers, planers, Dynascopes… or even bits of small tooling with something clever/desirable/unusual about them e.g. Swindens/Gressel vices, Multifix/Tripan QCTPs, optical rotary tables, hydraulic milling machine vices, Centricators, etc?

and finally…

Re David Clark's workshop/shed series: worth mentioning perhaps that in most places with a bit of population there are concrete sectional garages regularly coming up on Ebay, Gumtree, local small ads etc, typically £50/£100 if you dismantle and take it away, bit better than £1500ish. There are also masses of secondhand double glazed doors and windows too, some new (mis-measured) and some used (replaced/upgraded) which you can use for better insulation and (somewhat) improved security on any shed compared to a single pane of glass (cut or build the shed to suit the door/window you've bought cheap).

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

JS, May I remind you of the Article

Quotes:-

"Our Editor in MEW No. 144 commented after the 2008 Model Engineer Exhibition “ it’s hard to believe that there’s a DRO hidden inside” so let’s see what I can do to convince you."

"The object of this article is not necessarily to provide a project for others to emulate but to demonstrate that with a degree of skill, it is possible to provide oneself with a tool that is not commercially available"

If any reader had been interested they could have asked for details. The DRO head was a modified Newall and it should also be quite easy to use one of the magnetic strip heads that Machine DRO sell.

Upon receipt of the draft, the MEW Editor did not ask for any further explanations to be added.

To Carl Wilson,

"never mind the Drilling Machine, the article should be about the Motor" I profoundly disagree, what is the sense of talking about a motor in the absence of application information, I would suggest that many, if not most readers, would be at a loss without such an application.

[egaParticipant @ega]

I have mixed feelings about being reminded that I have been reading MEW for nearly a quarter of a century but am glad to join in the welcome to our new editor!

Someone mentioned "the new copyright agreement"; is the text of this available, please?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 13/02/2014 13:48:24:

This is not the first time this has happened.

<etc.>

.

Careful, John … However true they may be, comments like that could get you tagged as a whinger or whiner around here.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Very true, perhaps I had better put my pen where my mouth is ?

[Douglas JohnstonParticipant @douglasjohnston98463]

Seeing the comment by John about the DRO inside a slide made me realise that one often takes more from an article than first appears to be the case. That article inspired me to fit a magnetic DRO under the slide of my Myford Speed 10 lathe, something I would not have thought of otherwise.

I suppose the same applies to the brushless motor. Although I was irritated by the lack of information about wiring the motor, I have now been inspired to dig about on the internet and have found a lot of information about them.

Food for thought?

Doug

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 14/02/2014 09:54:18:

Food for thought?

Doug

.

Doug,

In a similar vein, have a look at Kenneth's link on the Mercer thread, and my comment.

… Sometimes we don't need a blow-by-blow account, just some inspiration.

MichaelG.

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by John Stevenson on 13/02/2014 21:52:06:

Very true, perhaps I had better put my pen where my mouth is ?

That would be welcome John, always happy to benefit from your experience.

Rod

[Roderick JenkinsParticipant @roderickjenkins93242]

Posted by Douglas Johnston on 14/02/2014 09:54:18:

Seeing the comment by John about the DRO inside a slide made me realise that one often takes more from an article than first appears to be the case. That article inspired me to fit a magnetic DRO under the slide of my Myford Speed 10 lathe, something I would not have thought of otherwise.

I suppose the same applies to the brushless motor. Although I was irritated by the lack of information about wiring the motor, I have now been inspired to dig about on the internet and have found a lot of information about them.

Food for thought?

Doug

I, for one, would be very interested to know how to use these motors as a power source for a milling spindle, toolpost grinder or small lathe/mill. I would need a description from the 13 amp socket to the motor pulley.

cheers,

Rod

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It is not as if electric motors have not been available before. It is just that these are different with new sizes, powers and controls. So the information people need is about these different features not the trite and obvious that has been covered before year after year.

[john jennings 1Participant @johnjennings1]

Can only agree with comments on drilling machine/motor.

Firstly the drilling machine seemed to be vastly complex for its purpose.

The new motor was and is the novel aspect of the total device.

It seemed that such motors could be used for drilling/milling/grinding operations ( and were speed controllable as well as compact. As such they might form replacements for existing devices such as the Geo. Thomas Drill/Staking tool

Will we ever know?

John

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Almost everything shown in the magazine is vastly complex for it's purpose. It is often also ridiculously esoteric. In a recent issue we find "Cutting gears for a Cowells Lathe"…A bonny machine and no mistake, but how many people have got one? The article should just have been about gear cutting.

I know what you are going to say. You are going to say that if I want to learn about gear cutting then there are plenty of (no doubt Workshop Practice series) books about it and tutorials on the internet. I know that. I've read some of the books and watched the videos. There are books and videos on every aspect of anything that might legitimately find it's way into the magazine. So why bother with a magazine? Because I want to read about how an individual who might not be too far removed from me in terms of background and skill approached the problem, the mistakes they made and how they avoided them in future. In short, I want something to inspire and educate me.

In the same issue I mention above there is the beginning of something called "Teach In 2014". This is a serialised account of how to set up a workshop. All good information. However, this is EXACTLY the sort of thing that should come out as a "special" stand alone publication. Do not attempt at this point to tell me that this is not possible, because it was done by MEW with exactly the same information a few years ago. I know because I have that special on my bookshelf. So the current serialisation is padding.

Leaving aside the above, in the same issue the article on replacing lathe bearings was good, as was the item on the fly press. The piece on holding short ends for cutting with a bandsaw was also interesting. 

Shorter, more concentrated articles on core subjects would be better. The brushless motor is a great example. Its principle of operation, construction, IC's that can be used to drive it. A good, solid hit of high technical content. At the moment we often get a small amount of technical information spread far too thinly.

 

 

 

Edited By Carl Wilson 4 on 14/02/2014 17:39:04

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

I think you should have applied for Neil's job

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

But nobody knew there was a vacancy until after it had been filled by Neil, when it ceased to be a vacancy!

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Thank you, but he doesn't get paid enough.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Hi Carl,

The problem is that there are only so many generic operations. If an author can play an old tune on a new fiddle, it's more interesting to most people, even if they don't own that particular instrument. A good article may well appear to be specific to one lathe, for example, but the tips and advice about gear cutting can have wider application. Equally, reading about how other people have solved problems (or not) can spur readers on to solving their own problems (as in at least one example above).

You say you don't want to write articles, many people don't for divers reasons, and I respect that. But I still face the same challenge faced by every previous editor – where do I get a lot of new contributors willing to generate these short articles?

If anyone reading this IS interested in writing contributions for MEW, long or short, and new voices are always welcome, please email me: neil.wyatt@mytimemedia.com

Existing contributors should be reassured that David is in the process of passing unpublished work to me. My hope is that we can continue to hear from many familiar writers, while continuing welcome a range of new writers with new interests.

Neil

[Author]

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