Android GO

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Hi Nigel, thanks for your reply, it’s good to know why people post negative comments, helps to see others perspectives. I must admit to being an Apple user for many years and find that whilst expensive, they are good quality.
Battery life has never been a problem for me, never leave it plugged in all the time as I am told this can shorten battery life.

Not certain what you mean by hobbling them, never had a problem with longlevity, just replaced an iPhone 6 with a 12 for my wife, I have used them from the first one and am happy with the way they connect to all my other devices, tv, car etc.

Can’t compare them to Android though as I have not used one.

Ian

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Buying a phone is like buying a new lathe/mill etc. Get the best you can afford. I always bought used or older/lower spec phones for many years. All I needed was phone/text and odd photo. I always had 2 phones work/private. I had a 3 network dongle as a hotspot for my laptop internet when on holiday in the caravan.. All worked ok to a certain level. Then came the need for constant checking of email etc. So I progressed up to a 3g Motorola which worked very well. Next along came 4g and all its benefits and the downside of needing a faster chip & more ram. By this time I was using more & more apps on the phone as well. Well, lo & behold some apps decided they no longer wanted to work on my excellent but now getting on a bit Motorola. I have never had a "deal" contract and always bought my phones outright and used pay as you go services. So looking around I decided that I would go with a Samsung Galaxy A5 dual sim. This was an excellent phone for a couple of years and still is great as a backup phone I leave in the caravan "in case". Earlier this year I upgraded to a Samsung Galaxy A71 in all its glory. I managed to find the rare version with 128gb storage & 8gb of ram and dual sim as I have 2 phone numbers ( business & private ). But the features such as the fantastic camera/video camera and the ability to connect to the internet seemingly anywhere make it a great piece of kit. It has good security and runs all the modern apps such as banking, NHS etc etc. It was expensive (for me) £325 but I think it compares very well to the i-phone my wife has in all respects which she paid over £800 for. I will not go into the Apple/Android argument. As far as I can see any of the Samsung A series phones are good value and have good camera's. Geting one that has Bixby routines ie:- which allow the phone to run without location turned on until an app such as maps needs it does save a lot of battery along with many other routines. I can go 7-8 days without a recharge. Another thing to remember is that 3g will soon be dropped by several service providers. Good luck in your search for a phone.

BTW I do have an Lenovo Android Go 7" tablet as a DRO monitor on my smaller mill and it is painfully slow to boot up.

  regards

Edited By Oldiron on 13/12/2021 11:01:04

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Hi Ian,

Apple fined for slowing down old iPhones

Mrs B's works phone will not operate for more than a day without requiring recharging. I'm not sure which model it is, but doubt that DWP will be specifying the latest or greatest versions. My reference to it being "plugged in all the time" is more that I notice it when I come to recharge my phone (every 3 days) it is always on the kitchen table in the evening getting charged up for the following working day, rather than it having to be plugged in to operate.

Apple do appear to work hard to ensure that repairing their devices is difficult or near impossible & have resorted (fairly recently) to disabling features such as face recognition if the display is replaced by anyone other than Apple – even if genuine Apple parts are used. They do seem to have had to change their tune on that in the face of user backlash & are, apparently, going to make replacement display kits available "officially" for the first time. They also have some king of serial numbering arrangement for compment parts that prevents used parts from broken phones being used to repair others – the parts may be working and correct, but because the serial number is different to that which the phone was built with it won't function. This attitude appears to be in place to sell more phones & contributes to the increasing amount of electronic waste.

Nigel B.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

After several years using an old Samsung phone – because all I really want is a phone, not a pocket computer, I bought two Xiaomi Poco M3's running Android 12 and Xiaomi's MUI 12. SWMBO had to have one as well

The main reason I 'updated' was that I was getting fed up with remarks about using 'old technology', and also that I was interested to see exactly what these phones offered.

In passing, I can confirm that the Xiaomi's I bought (through BangGood), do not inflict advertisements on the user. There is a 'Security' app, which shows some 'recommendations' after using it, but can easily be dismissed.

However, after using it for about 6 months, I have to confess to digging out my old Samsung, with something like the first version of Android on it, simply because I became so sick and tired of trying to use the 'Smart(!)phone'. As a long time computer user, I would never tolerate the number of 'clicks'' needed to carry out a simple function such as placing a call, or ending it afterwards – I realise this is a function of Android, not the phone, but unfortunately the world has let itself be taken over by Google and Android, and I want a phone, not a games machine. I was also worried by the sheer intrusiveness of 'apps' on the phone – admittedly, some of this could be stopped, but not all. So the Xiaomi went in the drawer, and out came my old Samsung. Still Android, but at least controllable, and it could be used as a phone.

While going through this experience, I carried out a search for any phone not using Google Android, because for me Android is the source of the problem. They do exist, but don't seem easy to obtain. I did find a company which apparently sells both new and 'reconditioned' 'de-Googled' phones world-wide. Android will not let you delete any of the Google bloatware, but these phones are supplied (running Android) but without the Google apps, and you can install what you need.

An alternative is to 'root' the phones (Android is Linux – rooting them gives you access at root level, to do what you want) – thats my next step after some reading. Meantime, viva Samsung.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 13/12/2021 10:23:39:

[…]

… or can we expect to see ‘Round Two’ sometime soon ?

.

‘Sometime soon’ has arrived : **LINK**

https://event.mi.com/uk/sales2021/xmas-sale/

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I'd love to recommend Samsung, except that the built-in software is a pain. It keeps trying to do jobs such as password retention and voice recognition with its awful 'Bixby Routines'. These are all done better and more conveniently by Android itself or Firefox – in particular passwords which Firefox securely shares across all my devices.

Samsung 'stole' the care of some of my passwords causing all sorts of pain when I change one.

Neil

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Sometime soon’ has arrived

If you are not in a desparate hurry for delivery, look for the "Deal of the day" offers in the Mi Store on top of the headline deals. That was how I got the 8Gb+256Gb Poco X3 Pro for less than the current offer (which is a better offer than the normal one last week) on a "today only" basis – pure luck that the phone I was interested in came up on such an offer the day I was looking. Plus the extra tenner off if your choice is over £200 with the offer code headlined on the home page – postage is not charged for over about £70 order value IIRC.

The ordering process from Xiaomi UK was straightforward, though you have to set up an account with a password. The address entry is a bit "odd" (possibly designed for somewhere with a different address format to ours) but if it doesn't look to be formated correctly when you move pages you can go back to re-arrange things until it looks right. I ordered at 9.30pm Tuesday & it was delivered RM 1st Class Signed For mid-morning Thursday.

Xiaomi Poco M3's running Android 12 and Xiaomi's MUI 12…… So the Xiaomi went in the drawer ….

There has just been an update to MIUI 12.5 – might be worth digging the Poco out of the drawer & updating it ? I didn't use mine with 12 as it was supplied, as it updated to 12.5 almost immediately. From what I have read, each iteration of MIUI has got less "different" & more like normal Android in operation, so it may make yours operate more to your liking ?

Nigel B.

[egaParticipant @ega]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/12/2021 15:34:18:

I'd love to recommend Samsung, except that the built-in software is a pain. It keeps trying to do jobs such as password retention and voice recognition with its awful 'Bixby Routines'. These are all done better and more conveniently by Android itself or Firefox – in particular passwords which Firefox securely shares across all my devices.

Samsung 'stole' the care of some of my passwords causing all sorts of pain when I change one.

Neil

I saw somewhere the comment that the Firefox password utility is only secure when not shared?

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Veering slightly off the original topic onto password managers / utilities, I would rather write my passwords down and keep the notes physically secure, rather than trusting the whole shebang to an electronic store which only requires the knowledge of one password to access.

Rob

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

mgnbuk: Nigel, I can see you like Xiaomi , and I have to say its not the phone per se which causes me problems – its Android – If you consider how powerful these phones are, then look at how bl**dy awkward they are to use: there seems to be so many different ways to do things in Android, all unclear, all taking multiple presses, then I for one think that Android has gone completely wrong – it could be so much simpler and easier. As for the Miui updates – it updated at least twice while I was using it, and I don't believe either update was an improvement. From your post, I am guessing you have not had your Xiaomi too long – I would be interested to hear your opinions in 6 months time.

Neil: My old Samsung apparently even pre-dates your 'Bixby' routines. It has working keys, and a small display which is perfectly adequate for my needs. It simply works as a phone – enter a number (or use the contact list), press a key, and it makes the call. Press a key to end the call – simples. It also only needs charging about once every 8 or 10 days. There are one or two extras – like a calculator, timer, alarm and notes – and thats enough for me. I don't know if we are using 3, 4, or 5G, and don't care. If it stops working, I'll worry about it then.

Taking it a little further, I asked myself what a 'smartphone' did for me that this simple phone does not. Firstly I want a telephone – Samsung wins hands-down for ease of use. I don't need or want a camera, music, games, to know where I am (or tell others where I am), take 'selfies' (Always thought there was something strange about that!). I don't do any computing in any form (online, etc) on the phone, because my aging eyes have problems, especially trying to use it in bright light – I can find no good reason to use one – I only bought it out of curiosity. I thought I was alone in this Luddite philosophy, but many of my friends seem to agree with me when I ask them the questions I ask myself. I have a perfectly good computer on which I do any computing I need (quite a lot actually), and to give me an online presence, and its far easier to use than any smart phone.

That said, I must repeat that my objections are not really to the phone and its facilities – I'm sure they are fine if thats what you want – my issue is with Android – surely the most cumbersome, unclear software ever foisted on the paying public by Google, along with the loss of privacy.

I also agree with Cowboy – I seem to have far too many passwords to remember. My bank, for example, insists I change it every 90 days – and the new password must include certain types of character, and not resemble the old one. I quickly ran out of passwords I could remember by mental methods, so I have to write it down – I guess that effectively destroys any security that the frequent changes confer.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I notice some phones now have 3 cameras but don't say why you would need two pointing in the same direction. No doubt obvious to Facebook users but the answer has eluded me.
WRT iphones there are some programs that only work on Android eg wifi signal strength and they don't keep constant contact with their wifi access point so are wobbly on providing home control presence detection. Recently they pompously decided to warn people that WPA wifi security wasn't secure thus causing millions of users to have kittens. Software updates have often been rolled out without checking with ISPs whether they actually work properly but this is true of lots of devices like games machines, tablets etc.

[StueeeeParticipant @stueeee]

Posted by Ian Hewson on 13/12/2021 09:33:34:

Just wondering why some are biased against iPhones, they do not give a reason, or say if they have ever had one?

Ian

I had an iPhone, was really difficult to get it to work (tethering) with either of two different Android tablets, when it did work, throughput was extremely poor. I'm sure the Apple stuff works marvellously with other Apple products, but I didn't fancy selling a Kidney to get an iPad with similar functionality/performance to an Android item.

Migrating the data from the iPhone to my new Motorola G8 Power was a bit of a pain, but well worth the work. The G8 power goes for up to 3 days without needing a charge even with a fair number of apps running. I simply can't see any reason to go back to any Apple device from my own experience.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 13/12/2021 15:34:18:

I'd love to recommend Samsung, except that the built-in software is a pain. It keeps trying to do jobs such as password retention and voice recognition with its awful 'Bixby Routines'. These are all done better and more conveniently by Android itself or Firefox – in particular passwords which Firefox securely shares across all my devices.

Samsung 'stole' the care of some of my passwords causing all sorts of pain when I change one.

Neil

A phone will do what you tell it. Just disable any prog's and app actions you dont want. I use my phone "rightly or wrongly" without any passwords, voice/face recogniton or fingerprint security. I just use strong passwords on any apps that need one. Never get any prompts for things I have turned off. I find the Bixby routines are perfect for some jobs. You have to write a routine as it cannot do stuff of its own accord. I also disable the Samsung account facility.

regards

[Anonymous]

Posted by An Other on 13/12/2021 18:13:08:

That said, I must repeat that my objections are not really to the phone and its facilities – I'm sure they are fine if thats what you want – my issue is with Android – surely the most cumbersome, unclear software ever foisted on the paying public by Google, along with the loss of privacy.

+1 (or 10 if I can).

I've had probably 4 Android devices – phone and tablets. Couldn't get on with any of them. Sluggish, obscure. Most of the time seems to be doing something behind the scenes. Gawd knows what. Certainly only responsive to me when it gets a mo.

I'm not a big fan of Apple (the company) particularly post-Jobs but at least their product works and (mostly) does what I want.

Obviously Android devices suit some Gunga Dins but I would suggest that anyone contemplating one for the first time, try to borrow one for a few hours and see if they are happy with it. Particularly if they are coming from an iPhone.

Edited By Peter Greene on 13/12/2021 22:31:53

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Posted by Bazyle on 13/12/2021 18:29:42:

I notice some phones now have 3 cameras but don't say why you would need two pointing in the same direction. No doubt obvious to Facebook users but the answer has eluded me….

There isn't enough depth in most phones for a decent zoom lens and sensors are relatively cheap, so my phone has separate cameras for wide-angle, standard and short telephoto. It is I suppose equivalent to the three lens turret on a 1960s cine camera. It works surprisingly well despite the small sensor size and lack of optical stabilisation.

Brian G

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I’m still pondering …

[ there’s no real rush unless / until we have the next disaster ]

Meanwhile: I have found this helpful page, which I thought worth sharing: **LINK**

https://www.makeuseof.com/how-to-remove-ads-on-your-xiaomi-device/

MichaelG.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Nigel, I can see you like Xiaomi …… I am guessing you have not had your Xiaomi too long – I would be interested to hear your opinions in 6 months time

I currently purchase Xiaomi because, at the moment, they appear (to me) to offer the best combination of specification vs. price & I bought mine because my wife has had a positive experience with hers over the past year. Historically I have started with a Motorola, changed that for another Motorola, had a different Chinese Android phone (Hisense), a Symbian Nokia & currently (until the Xiaomi aftermarket case arrives) a Windows Nokia, so I have no particular long-term affiliation with a particular manufacturer. Same with cars – buy what suits at that moment in time, but what suits changes with time. We had 4 Skodas back-to-back from the late '80s, but I wouldn't buy a current Skoda – times change.

Xiaomi must be doing something right – for a company that only started in 2010 & shipped its first phone in 2013 to have become the second largest phone manufacturer (behind Samsung, ahead of Apple) suggests that they are making what people want to buy at a price they are happy to pay. My only gripe (so far ! ) is the sheer number of competing versions of phones that they make & the rate at which the products change makes it difficult to decide which is the "best" for me. Reviews are only limited help & often rather contradictory.

I can't say I have found Android any more difficult or frustating to use than any of the others. I have most Android experience with a first generation Tesco Hudl tablet, which gets used most days for reading newspapers and magazines via Readly. But it also got used as a rolling map (Osmand app) in my motorhome & occasional web surfing – only recently have there been performance issues, which seem to be due to the age of the device & updates to apps making it run more slowly. Not sure what you mean about "foisted on the paying public" – AFAIK Google don't charge manufacturers for Android – or they didn't use to – that was how it became so widespread. Getting access to data (loss of privacy) with widepread adoption was Google's aim all along ! Android doesn't seem to cause me any more frustrations than the various versions of WIndows I have fought over the years & far fewer than my limited forays into Linux, which have currently got me beaten into submission.

Nigel B.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Life is to short to explore this ‘comparison site’ in full … but it may be of interest:

**LINK**

https://rankquality.com/en/smartphones/

The search bar towards the top of the page will take you to any specific model in the enormous database:

… for example

**LINK**

https://rankquality.com/en/alcatel-1s-2021/?sphrase_id=97256

MichaelG.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Nigel B. I guess we all have different experiences – and I think I perhaps used the term 'paying public' in error. I was a bit concerned to read:

Getting access to data (loss of privacy) with widepread adoption was Google's aim all along !

Its obvious you are right, as the behaviour of Google has shown, but do you have no concerns about that? – this alone would be enough to stop me using any Google product (which is the case for me, unless by accident).

I made my comments after trying to work with Android for some time – as an ex-programmer, I really became fed up with the foibles of Android, given the power of the modern phones Android runs on. I have also made the comparison between a very early (usable) Android, and the version that was on my Xiaomi, which eventually made me dump it. I really believe that it could be made much simpler and easier, but I also believe that the industrial and technical power of Google has forced Android to the forefront. Perhaps a little like the way Bill Gates modified CPM then managed to get IBM to use it in the early PCs. In general, there is no alternative, so people tolerate it because they don't know of alternatives.

I think this leads in to your comment about frustrations with various versions of Windows. I think this is quite a common complaint, and I for one could never understand why people paid (until recently) for a product which has long been defective (tell me all the security updates and patches that MS has pushed out over the years are not defects!).

Although there are many alternatives to Windows, probably the main one is Linux. I came to Linux years ago as an ex-Unix user, and I agree totally that Linux in its early years seemed to be intended strictly for a narrow circle of experienced users – it certainly wasn't easy even to install. But that has changed – I would say the major Linux distros are not difficult to install. (A recent attempt at Windows 10 took me several hours, and wasn't entirely successful, on a new machine, but a Linux Mint or Ubuntu install usually takes less than an hour.

Linux isn't flawless – its a developing tool (and now unfortunately Big Tech is getting its claws into it, so it will be monetised and crippled, IMO), so sometime things go wrong. That said, there is a huge community online which will help. As a Linux user, it seems to me that most people, once converted to Linux, stay with it. There are several threads in this forum dealing with 'Windows Problems', but I can't find many dealing with Linux Problems. Maybe you should give it another try, and report your experiences on this forum, and maybe this can be laid to rest – I for one would like to know what difficulties you have – then perhaps there will be another tool people can use. You do say you have 'limited' experience with it. As for me, using Windows these days is a crippling experience, and I don't have that much time these days to waste.

BTW, I agree with what you say about Xiaomi's expansion, and the sheer number of things they now seem to make – as I said before, my problem is not the hardware, its Android.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Well … my foray into Macclesfield was useful for the new sim-only contract negotiated at O2

I now have Unlimited Texts and Calls, and 5GB Data per month [all subject to the usual stuff, of course] for a suitably modest price.

Then looked in Currys and was very tempted by the OPPO A53 … but decided to continue my research for a little longer before buying anything.

This is probably a rare occurrence : **LINK**

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Oppo-A53-user-suffers-injuries-after-phone-explodes-in-pocket.543742.0.html

… but I’m glad I wasn’t carrying that A53 in my trouser pocket !

MichaelG.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 14/12/2021 21:15:03

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

but do you have no concerns about that?

If I thought that Google wanted to track me for reasons other than making money from advertisers maybe, but there is "no such thing as a free lunch" and for me the trade-off between the "free" functionality of Google's offerings versus the advertising is currently acceptable – though the current swamping of YouTube with unwanted and intrusive ads is getting to be rather annoying.

Google do seem to use (at least some) the data they collect to improve their services – Google Translate, for example, is pretty amazing & apparently has some form of AI that compares it's output translations with other translations to contiunually refine its capabilities. We were on holiday in Germany in September and, obviously, Covid issues were widespread. I can understand a bit of German in situations I am familiar with, but Covid related notices introduced a whole raft of unfamiliar terms. Using the camera on Mrs B's phone & Google Translate, signs just changed from German into English. The grammer could be a bit "odd", but it was easy to understand what the signs were about – in one case a requirement to e-mail copies of vaccination certs to the local council department that operated the motorhome stopover we were staying at, which was easily done with the phone GMail account. A potentially stressful situation made suprisingly easy with an Android phone & Google apps – if the cost is (usually) non-intrusive tracking & data collection of some of my activities, at the moment I am happy with that.

I have installed Ubuntu onto an old HP laptop running Vista that I was given. The laptor was dead when I got it, as the original owner had managed to pull the connnector off the power lead, then ran it until the battery went flat. A new connector on the lead got it going, but there was so much junk on it that Vista would barely run. Doing a "restore to as supplied" got rid of the junk & after it had loaded up all the service packs & updates it ran Vista quite well, but I fancied trying Linux so installed Ubuntu as dual boot. Quite starightforward & all the laptop funtions worked under Linux + it was much faster.

I also put Mint on an XP OS Medion netbook dual boot & that worked fine as well initially. The same problems came to both machines after an update – the screen went to showing only around 20% of the normal display on the LHS, the remainder being black. If I started in the Linux equivalent of "Safe Mode" then a lower resolution full screen came back. I tried multiple times getting updates in "Safe Mode", mistakenly thinking that one of them would undo whatever had caused the problem (something to do with video drivers or settings by the look of it), but the problem remained & I was unable to find answers online as to how to solve the problem.

As I didn't need either of the machines (I have working alternatives) , that is how it ended up being left – I have less frustrating things to spend my free time on ! Most of the Linux "support" seems to assume a level of understand that I just don't have & a lot of the jargon is pretty impeneterable for an outright beginner, so my Linux experience ended up being something of a let down after a promising intial start.

I have subsequently got a first generation Raspberry Pi up and running from scratch – though, as yet, have not done anything useful with it !

Nigel B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well, the exam question was 'Does anyone have experience of this ‘GO Edition’ … and does it have any significant disadvantage ?'

For those who care, Android is based on the Linux kernel adapted to suit the relatively small processor, limited battery power, and extra connectivity and peripheral requirements of a smart phone. To save space, kernel functions not needed by a smart phone have been removed. Likewise, Android doesn't include the usual Linux window managers, applications, or package management system. Compared with Ubuntu, Mint, Red Hat etc., Android is cut-down in some areas and enhanced significantly in others. It doesn't look or feel like Linux.

Fortunately users rarely need to know how their Smart Phone works, or understand how to write software for it. It's what it does and how easy it is to use that matters. Judging by sales, most people like it.

Android GO is a trimmed down version of Android designed to get the best out of low-end hardware. That immediately implies it won't be quick, full featured, or able to run beefy Apps. I fear it's in the same camp as those cheap Windows Notepad Computers of a few years ago. Their minimalist Office and Browser capability was fine up to a point, but the machines had slow processors and graphics, tiny memory and disc, and were impossible to expand. Insufficient capacity to load much in the way of additional software, and liable to run sluggishly. My daughter thought hers was great for a month, after which the shortcomings hurt. Disliked it after 3 months and replaced it after six.

The risk of buying a trimmed down computer is that it might not cope with what's needed in future.

Android GO should be fine if there's no need for other than basic services. But there'll be trouble if the owner discovers later there are lots of wonderful Apps he wants to run, or his bank or bus pass app upgrades in a way that GO can't support. Actually going out-of-date is a problem for high-end Smart Phones too. The technology is advancing rapidly – worth upgrading every 3 years or so. Completely different from lathes which haven't changed their basic form for well over a century.

Dave

Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the endorsement of the previous assessment by jason udall, Dave

MichaelG.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Nigel B: – Well, it doesn't look like you're going to be a convert any time soon!. It doesn't really seem to me that you have had many problems with Linux from what you have said. If you can get a first generation PI up and running, then using Linux should be a breeze, with a little application, but if you're happy with Windows and Android, then fine.

I'm sorry I can't agree with you about Google – its true they provide their software free, and this has given them massive data-scraping capabilities. If you care to look for it, there is plenty of stuff in all the media about how Google have used this to force out potential competition, and sold the data on to other companies. I'm afraid I don't have such a rosy view of having my privacy invaded by companies such as this. Also consider what would happen if Google does suddenly decide to charge for their software – it may never happen, but I wouldn't bet on it, and suddenly the world is indebted to one company – and this has happened in other fields.

I agree that some of their software is good – it should be, given their size – and you rightly say Translate is amazing – but where is the competition? – all other online translation services I can find use Googles Translate engine. Monopolies don't have a good record in the long term, so I would prefer to have a choice – which you don't have with Android.

Nonetheless – have fun with it.

[Author]

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