An expesive day

[Neil AParticipant @neila]

I was really amazed when I read this post, in all my 40 years plus in engine design would I have even considered putting a flexible toothed belt inside the engine exposed to lubricating oil and high temperatures? I think not, even my colleagues would have choked at the suggestion.

It seems that someone in the design team has lost their way somewhat. Looking at the design of the belt run, it appears to be more suitable for a roller chain than a flexible toothed belt. Did someone decide to change the original design intent for something a few pounds cheaper?

Perhaps this is intentional built in obsolescence or they just don't care anymore.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Yes, sorry I read it that it was a possible cause but investigation was needed.

[Chris Pearson 1Participant @chrispearson1]

Posted by Mike Poole on 10/06/2023 13:14:49:

The trouble with oil pressure gauges is they will show wide variations and still be operating normally, it will require the driver to understand what is normal behaviour and not panic when the needle drops with hot oil and idling speed.

There was some discussion about this in the Alvis Register fairly recently. When you get 40 p.s.i. cold and 20 p.s.i. hot dropping to less than 10 p.s.i. at low speeds, you are apt to worry when the gauge is 0 – 100 p.s.i. Then I noticed that my R-R runs at 20 p.s.i., but the gauge is only 0 – 30, so I stopped worrying.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Mike, I agree with you – more so now than ever ! BUT if you know whats going on it may save a lot of trouble. One can always fit ones self. Noel.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When I was getting paid for working the hydraulic circuits always had a differential pressure sensir/gauge across the oil filter so you knew if it was getting blocked. It's probably not possible to fit a gauge twixt strainer and pump (on the suction side) but worth investigating? It would need to be a vacuum type gauge I think.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

An alert driver may be quick enough to save an engine or in Steve’s case notice a deteriorating trend as the filter became clogged with the disintegrating belt. To the trained eye a gauge could be most useful, indeed if had one fitted to the Trident I may have hunted down the faulty filter but I don’t know if the failure was a slow build up or a dramatic failure, I suspect it was a slow process so a good chance it could have avoided the blow up. The rod failures allowed the pistons to just kiss the head which explained the ticking noise. The tow home was exciting, lane 3 of the M40 overtaking everything. Two Tridents and 3 people with a short tow rope requires intense concentration, I was knackered when I got home.

Mike

[vintage engineerParticipant @vintageengineer]

Up here in the Highlands most garages refuse to work on any of the wet belt cars. A local garage won't even MOT them! They are a disaster waiting to happen!

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

A bit of a discalaimer here. I was not in the car when this happened & rarely drive the car. It is Bevs not mine.

So she said I heard a rattling noise & looked down at the dash. There was a red light, which was a I guess stop now job. This was a very short distance from the roundabout. As she got to the roundabout , she dipped the clutch. When she came to set off again the car did not move. She said it did stop abruptly. Now she is a lovely lady but does like her music loud when driving.

The car may have been making a noise prior to this , which I suspect it was. The engine I have purchased is from Syntiq, which used to be Motorhog. They give 30 day warantee with the engine or 3 months if you give them the old engine back.

The engine comes bare & needs all the ancillaries from our engine. Once all done & happy it is running ok, we put the old engine back on the pallet received & they come & take it away. I did try Trent salvage, another huge recycle centre that you may have heard of. But they wanted £2200 delivered.

I remember when Ford introduced this engine to there range & the boast was the block was a A4 footprint size. They said the engine internal cambelt was good for 400,000 Km. No mention of a timeframe.

The early ones used to crack the cylinder heads due to the fact , to save money they did away with an exhaust manifold & bolted the turbo straight to the head. They started to crack internaly. Bevs is the later engine. There are plenty of other issues as there are with most cars. Google any p[articular car & up pops all the problems.

The cambelt issue is not that they break, but small fibres which come off the edge of the belt causing the clogging to the oil way.

Had I not been in my 70's the engine would have come out at home & I would have repaired it. Spent most of my adult life building & rebuilding engines from mini to big block Chevrolet's. But it's not really an old codgers thing any more, hence the Son in Law's garage doing the work.

The other thing is that if you changed the oil every month there is still achance of this happening due to the gauze getting blocked. This would still be blocked with fresh oil.

If any of you guys have one of these you will know they are a delight to drive. 3 Cylinders which sounds like a V8. Not a bit like the old 3 pot Corsa that used to tickover like a cement mixer. As some of you have said . What a shame Ford did not just go the extra mile & make it more reliable. For anyone interested here is a someone doing the belt change & showing the blockage.

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 10/06/2023 23:03:56

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

A delight to drive? Not in a Focus. It has always idled like a cement mixer, and reminds me of an Essex V6; a mild surge of bottom end torque, and then asthmatic wheeziness once it gets to 4000rpm. Engine braking is virtually non-existent and it's not easy to drive smoothly. They're down to the tiny turbo and, I suspect, a heavy flywheel. I'm not basing that on just one example, and I've never met anyone else with anything good to say about them.

It's not even particularly economical – getting more than 40mpg takes a lot of effort, or driving in lane1 of the motorway.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Nick Wheeler on 10/06/2023 23:32:54:

A delight to drive? Not in a Focus. It has always idled like a cement mixer, and reminds me of an Essex V6; a mild surge of bottom end torque, and then asthmatic wheeziness once it gets to 4000rpm. Engine braking is virtually non-existent and it's not easy to drive smoothly. They're down to the tiny turbo and, I suspect, a heavy flywheel. I'm not basing that on just one example, and I've never met anyone else with anything good to say about them.

It's not even particularly economical – getting more than 40mpg takes a lot of effort, or driving in lane1 of the motorway.

Hi Nick. That is not the experience I have had with the little Fiesta ST line 125 ps. It actually goes like stink & very smooth too. Fuel economy is as you say around the 40. What other petrol car is better than that. It is just a shame about the failure otherwise I cannot knock the car itself.

Steve.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Ugh, I watched that video. Everyone knowing anything about engine repairs should, at least, now know not to entrust any engine repairs to that pair of amateurs. Yet another poor video of a job that should be completed properly by competent mechanics. Keep well away from M and J Automotive, is my advice.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Steviegtr on 11/06/2023 00:26:29:

Posted by Nick Wheeler on 10/06/2023 23:32:54:

A delight to drive? Not in a Focus. It has always idled like a cement mixer, and reminds me of an Essex V6; a mild surge of bottom end torque, and then asthmatic wheeziness once it gets to 4000rpm. Engine braking is virtually non-existent and it's not easy to drive smoothly. They're down to the tiny turbo and, I suspect, a heavy flywheel. I'm not basing that on just one example, and I've never met anyone else with anything good to say about them.

It's not even particularly economical – getting more than 40mpg takes a lot of effort, or driving in lane1 of the motorway.

Hi Nick. That is not the experience I have had with the little Fiesta ST line 125 ps. It actually goes like stink & very smooth too. Fuel economy is as you say around the 40. What other petrol car is better than that. It is just a shame about the failure otherwise I cannot knock the car itself.

The 1800 Zetec engined Focus it replaced did over 40mpg. So does a 25 year-old 1400 Metro/R100. Hell, I can get almost 40mpg from a tuned 2.0i Pinto in a Capri. None of those have the Ecoboom faults, and can be maintained /repaired by anyone who knows which end of the screwdriver to hit with a hammer…

I haven't watched this yet, but here's another tear down VIDEO of the things.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Looks like Steve is getting what used to be called a 'Short' engine albeit not rebuilt with a mileage already built in. Hope it's had a good flush out and the belts replaced?

The trust we built up with the local small garage to do routine maintenance has been nullified by Manufacturers get out clauses allowing main agents to rip us off at every opportunity.

Fords technical department reps visited our company once to give us a talk on FMA. (Failure Mode Analysis). Example they showed was what was likely to happen if the pin, which operated in the scroll of a steering assembly, welded to the operating quadrant came off due to bad welding. DOH!

Seems like their own designers haven't pulled that one out of the filing cabinet.

Regards Ian.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

I Do Cars on YouTube has just done a tear down of a 1.0 Ecoboom with a belt failure.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I've just watched the "I do cars" video referred to by a couple of people above. In the comments someone mentions that apparently there is a special oil that you are supposed to use that does not degrade the belts. So that might be worth looking in to. Apparently in the states you can't get that oil so even the dealers are using the wrong stuff.

There was also a comment about an aftermarket conversion of both belts (Timing and oil pump/balance) to chain, which would seem like a good idea, although tossing the whole thing and getting something Japanese would seem like a better one to me.

The "I do cars" videos are fascinating if you want to see what various forms of neglect can do to an engine, often big American iron, but German and Japanese engines do feature from time to time.

John

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

It's highly likely the designers of these engines are native German speakers. They have all the hallmarks of German engineering; complication for the sake of it, fussy maintenance requirements that cannot be missed, any improvements are theoretical rather than practical, horrible to work on, over optimistic use of materials(like the plastic water feed to the turbo) etc etc.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

There are many variations of thw "1L EcoBoost" engine. People may not be comparing like for like. There have been revisions to the clutch and flywheel to improve smoothness. Some versions revert to 2 cylinder operation some don't. The later ones have a chain not a belt.
Like most of these small engines it's about emissions and economy. Fewer cylinders mean less weight and less friction.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Nick Wheeler on 11/06/2023 11:49:32:

It's highly likely the designers of these engines are native German speakers. They have all the hallmarks of German engineering; complication for the sake of it, fussy maintenance requirements that cannot be missed, any improvements are theoretical rather than practical, horrible to work on, over optimistic use of materials(like the plastic water feed to the turbo) etc etc.

You must have a BMW motorbike. Perfect description of their more recent efforts.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I was not convinced that a wet rubber belt was a clever idea, but had not considered debris clogging the oil system. This is a major design fault, normal servicing could never never stop that happening.

[Kiwi BlokeParticipant @kiwibloke62605]

"Because we can" is NOT a justification for doing something! I suppose that if there were more of these engines failing in litigious USA, there would have been a class action against Ford by now. In the distant past, the AA acted in suppost of motorists. Now it sells insurance and promotes holidays…

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

On SO many tombstones, "It seemed a good idea , at the time"

Howard

[Andrew EntwistleParticipant @andrewentwistle]

Steve, you mentioned using the right oil, is that 5W20 fully synthetic? If so I am worried for our C-Max with 60k on the same engine.

Andrew.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Yes it was 5-20 full synthetic. I believe some use 5-15. Our next door neighbour has a fiesta 1.0 ecoboost 2014. It's done 86,000 miles. Serviced by local guy. Never missed a beat. ????.

Steve.

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

Is there any way to see the oil strainer fitted to the pump inlet?

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Only by removing the sump.

Steve

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