Amazing! Too Good to be True?

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by martin haysom on 16/07/2022 21:17:49:

Posted by Dave Halford on 16/07/2022 20:52:22:

You can get oiled plugs to fire (Chrysler 180) by pulling the lead off the offending plug about a 1/4", the extended spark ups the voltage no end, the down side is you might twitch a bit and you will need a new coil at some point soon.

but only if you sprinkle magic pixie dust over the engine

Martin,

In the case of that engine the magic pixie dust was supplied by 20 miles in 2nd gear which unstuck the oil rings. Gotta love old fashioned mineral oil.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Steviegtr on 16/07/2022 20:16:02:

I had a 1960 moggy minor traveller. This was around 1968. Burned oil like no tomorrow until i found a miracle cure. It was called piston seal. Drove round all night at 30mph as instructions.

I think it burned more oil than ever after that.

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 16/07/2022 20:16:52

A pal talked me out of buying "Instant Rebore".

I drilled out the oil return holes in the bottom piston ring groove 1/32" bigger.

That worked.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

The Gap in the HT lead is a known-to-work device. Honest. With some ignition systems, any conductive deposit (eg carbon) on the spark plug insulator can allow a current to flow in the secondary winding of the coil, and this slows down the collapse of the magnetism in the coil, and reduces the spark voltage. Result – misfires.

If you introduce a small gap in the HT line, this current cannot flow, and in consequence the misfiring stops.

But it only works if there is a direct connection with no gaps between the coil and the plug. Some early magnetos had a brush pick-up for the HT, and no gap anywhere else, so the shirt-button trick (or two wood screws point to point in a bit of rubber tube) would work with them. But, all cars since about 1920 have had a spark gap in the distributor (whether magneto or coil). In ordinary coil ignition it is the gap between the end of the rotor arm and the brass connections in the dizzy cap. A long time ago I was at an agricultural show where 'salesmen' were 'proving' their product worked by demonstrating with a pre-war Ford tractor engine. Which, of course, had an early magneto and no gap in the HT leads.

So, if you want to run a car with a WW1 ignition system, this gismo will reduce your misfiring. But so will a shirt button.

Funny old world – Regards, Tim

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Has no-one spotted the flaw in the idea that these magic, apparently insoluble pellets rattling around the floor of the petrol tank were "catalysts" ?

Catalysis is the encouragement of a chemical reaction by an additive that does not itself react. In a catalytic exhaust the reaction being helped along is the decomposition of compounds by heat – I don't pretend to know the chemistry further than that.

Nothing is reacting, within the fuel tank. If those FTC Pellets were to work at all they would need dissolve slowly, adding to the fuel an active ingredient sufficiently volatile to accompany the petrol vapour into the cylinders. What would happen to the tablets' non-reactive ingredients – their binders, etc. – though?

.

The world was awash with supposed wonder inventions and strange myth – my favourite myth being that of course the oil-companies bought and crushed such things as running the engine on water.

I recall Motorcycle News in the 1970s, running advertisements for a so-called "Injector" – I forget the full name or the brand – which apparently replaced the conventional carburettor. The photograph showed a neat rectangular block with an inlet venturi, outlet flange and the throttle-cable connection. No other external features on what I suspect was just a fancy carburettor.

The same paper once publicised something called the Trigonic tyre. This was the trade-mark for a fancy new re-invention of the wheel by one of the leading tyre manufacturers, not some fly-by-night outfit. I think it was aimed at the racing business rather than Joe Public's street Norton or Triumph; but its peculiarity was its rounded-triangular profile. It looked as if handling would have been an art, to say the least. When riding straight and level, only about a third of the tread width would have been on the road; and it was difficult to see what effect the rapid change of outline would have on leaning into a tight bend. Perhaps it was meant to help the knee-pad-to-the-tarmac cornering style beloved of the racing-Press photographers, but I don't think it caught on.

.

Somewhere once many moons past I recall an intriguing advertisement for the information about some promising green-dream machine "engine" – long before the "greens" were sprouting. I sent off the requested s.a.e..

The drawing proved the machine was no more than a simple radial-vane, rotary-displacement motor; but I never discovered its wonderful working fluid and source thereof. Clearly that was what really mattered, but I forget if the inventor was not revealing it, or if, disillusioned despite already being very sceptical, I did not bother to pursue it further.

.

Does anyone remember though, the delightful April Fool spoof one of the railway enthusiasts' magazines produced when BR was scrapping steam locomotives faster than you could say "Dai Woodham" ?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 19/07/2022 23:38:42:

[…]

I recall Motorcycle News in the 1970s, running advertisements for a so-called "Injector" – I forget the full name or the brand – which apparently replaced the conventional carburettor. The photograph showed a neat rectangular block with an inlet venturi, outlet flange and the throttle-cable connection. No other external features on what I suspect was just a fancy carburettor.

[…]

.

Wal gets his own little page on Wikipedia: **LINK**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal_Phillips

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ Just found this

.

 

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/07/2022 05:41:01

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Tim Hammond on 16/07/2022 16:13:14:

Howard, this reminds me of a product called "Brock Pellets" which were popular about 25 years ago at the time when leaded petrol was being phased out and car owners were concerned that they would have to go to the trouble and expense of fitting hardened valve seats to the cylinder heads of their engines in order to run on unleaded fuel without the risk of valve seat recession. The vendors claimed that the action of these pellets was catalytic when placed in the fuel tank of the vehicle, and for proof claimed that they were first developed to enable WW II Hurricane fighter planes sent to Russia to run reliably on the abysmal fuel available at that time in that country. They were quite expensive to buy, but were very popular. Did they work? Well, proponents and enthusiastic users said certainly they did, whereas the more cynical of us in the Trade were not wholly convinced. AFAIK, the discussions are still rumbling on in obscure parts of the internet.

I was asked to try these in my VW Beetle 1500 engine (a daily driver) by the classic car business that looked after it. I was told it was tin, not lead that was in the pellets but who knows?

All I do know is that for several years afterwards it ran on unleaded quite happily and its emissions (which were not necessary for MOT but tested for the sake of the experiment) were drastically reduced.

Only one example but interesting anyway.

[Don CoxParticipant @doncox80133]

With regard to introducing a spark gap into HT leads, When trying to make the transition from one time telephone "engineer" to FE lecturer in Motor Vehicle technology I was once told by a colleague ( who was a real motor engineer as opposed to an enthusiastic amateur like myself) that carbon string HT leads performed better than solid copper ones because their resistance was too high to pass the initial current until the output voltage of the coil had risen sufficiently to close to its maximum. This had the effect of not wasting energy in the initial phase of the ignition sequence, only releasing it when it was really useful to contribute to making the arc.

Nowadays, coil on a plug is the norm (so far as I know) so the HT path is only about 150mm long on the DOHC engines which seem to be prevalent these days. At the time of our discussion, ignition systems with CB, Hall effect and inductive sensor triggering systems were still commonplace and most engines still had a mechanical distributor. There were a few with centralised coils with ignition leads sprouting from them and the coil on a plug type was becoming ever more the norm.

Within the next 15 years, or possibly sooner, I expect all of this discussion will be consigned into the darker corners of history, a bit like steam technology mostly is today!

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Carbon string leads were the first in line to replace with copper when engine miss fires occurred. All the new gizmoes, coil packs and coil on leads are for one thing……. KERCHING.

Regards Ian.

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Circlip on 20/07/2022 09:20:14:

Carbon string leads were the first in line to replace with copper when engine miss fires occurred. All the new gizmoes, coil packs and coil on leads are for one thing……. KERCHING.

An electronically fired coil pack(whether it's one per engine or plug) is a massive improvement over the 'it just about sort of works' distributor. Anyone who has fitted a mapped, distributorless ignition to an older engine will know the benefits of better starting/running/drivability/economy/emissions and reliability.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

And anyone who has had one of the 'coil packs' fail on a Punto will be aware that it also takes the ECU with it. Old school coil, about £20, 'New age coil pack AND ECU, £600.

Regards Ian.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Energy Polariser

Ford and General Motors Holden were the main manufacturers of a locally designed cars in Australia. Both made cars with a 5 litre engine which were modified and used for racing.

In 1980 Peter Brock took over a company called the Holden Dealer Team (HDT), which started as Holden’s semi-official racing team, and was turned into a genuine Holden dealer-supported after he took over.

Peter was a race winner, then in his early 40s, lived like you’d expect with lots of booze and cigarettes and his health wasn’t great, so his girlfriend sent him to a doctor she knew and who taught her about the “New Age belief system with crystals and energy”. The doctor got him to eat healthier, quit smoking and drinking which he believed was because of the crystals and energy. Brock felt better and became a convert to the doctor’s philosophies.

Peter Brock was a truly gifted touring car driver and one of our best ever drivers but his downfall is truly fascinating, and involves a box of crystals and epoxy that tap into mythical orgone energy and align the molecules of whatever it’s attached to and called it an Energy Polarizer which sold for AU$890.

First unveiled in 1986 and then fitted as standard to every performance car sold by the HDT. The Energy Polarizer was, physically a plastic box filled with a pair of magnets separated by some crystals embedded in epoxy resin. It was held to the body of HDT cars with a single, self-tapping screw. At the time there was some kind of legal agreement that the Energy Polarizer could not be taken apart to see inside, in case the secret was used by their competitors.

Holden later officially ended all relationships with HDT and Brock.

[A SmithParticipant @asmith78105]

When I see that fellow at the autojumbles peddling his spark gap thing, it always reminds me of:-

What you need is a monorail!

A monorail?

Yes, a monorail!

(Simpsons – lifted from The Music Man)

[JAParticipant @ja]

"That fellow at the autojumbles peddling his spark gap thing…."

I tried to have a word with him once. He was miles away and appeared to be on some serious substances.

JA

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/07/2022 05:27:58:

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 19/07/2022 23:38:42:

[…]

I recall Motorcycle News in the 1970s, running advertisements for a so-called "Injector" – I forget the full name or the brand – which apparently replaced the conventional carburettor. The photograph showed a neat rectangular block with an inlet venturi, outlet flange and the throttle-cable connection. No other external features on what I suspect was just a fancy carburettor.

[…]

.

Wal gets his own little page on Wikipedia: **LINK**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal_Phillips

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ Just found this

.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/07/2022 05:41:01

I fitted a Wal Phillips injector to a 2 stroke bike in the late 60s. No huge increase in performance, but if you forgot to turn off the petrol tap it filled the crankcase with fuel. Not one of its better features

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/07/2022 05:27:58:

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 19/07/2022 23:38:42:

[…]

I recall Motorcycle News in the 1970s, running advertisements for a so-called "Injector" – I forget the full name or the brand – which apparently replaced the conventional carburettor. The photograph showed a neat rectangular block with an inlet venturi, outlet flange and the throttle-cable connection. No other external features on what I suspect was just a fancy carburettor.

[…]

.

Wal gets his own little page on Wikipedia: **LINK**

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wal_Phillips

MichaelG.

.

Edit: __ Just found this

.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 20/07/2022 05:41:01

I fitted a Wal Phillips injector to a 2 stroke bike in the late 60s. No huge increase in performance, but if you forgot to turn off the petrol tap it filled the crankcase with fuel. Not one of its better features

[Clive Brown 1Participant @clivebrown1]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 16/07/2022 15:36:27:

Tempted to class this like the old "Spark Enhancer" (Two woodscrews making a spark gap, in a plastic case)

Howard

Still lives, for "Norton Spark Enhancer" read "Spitfire Multispark" here

[Pete RimmerParticipant @peterimmer30576]

My friend loaned me a couple of those Wal Phillips fuel injectors to put on a project that never came to fruit (a landspeed racing scooter). There's nothing 'fancy' about them at all in fact compared to an average carburettor they are positively stone age. The closest thing I can liken them to is a glow engine carb.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

I recently came across one of the pellet-type "fuel catalysts" while removing the petrol tank from my employer's VW Type 2 camper.

Wrapped around one of the filler cap retaining plate screws was a length of thin plastic covered gardening wire & pulling on the wire drew out the package of pellets from the tank – presumably whoever put it in in the first place wanted the option to be able to remove his expensive investment when the vehicle was sold ?

As the VW had the 1600cc engine, this is a 6 pellet unit. The stainless mesh covering is stained (the bottom of the tank was lightly rusted ) except for the bottom face which was in contact with the tank. The pellets are free to move in the mesh & are polished on their edges from contact – the flat top surfaces have the rusty coating, but the curved undersides are still bright.

No idea if the original installer found if the product worked or not. The van is a '79 & was owned from new by the same family. It came with a receipt for an exchange engine, which had been fitted at around 92K miles which, from what I have read, is pretty good for an air cooled VW ?

Nigel B.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Nigel B. –

That looks like the one I trialled for the company that looked after my Beetle (1500 SP) and the car certainly ran on unleaded with no issues and when I and a couple of guys from the workshop took it to the MOT station the emissions figures were very low indeed – far lower than they were used to on air cooled flat fours although my car being a 1966 model emissions testing was only mandatory to be 'no visible smoke'

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by mgnbuk on 21/07/2022 12:33:17:

………

No idea if the original installer found if the product worked or not. The van is a '79 & was owned from new by the same family. It came with a receipt for an exchange engine, which had been fitted at around 92K miles which, from what I have read, is pretty good for an air cooled VW ?

Nigel B.

Mine did 130K before the front right exhaust valve snapped. A know fault on the 1300, the oil cooler blocked some of the cooling air flow. A replacement cylinder piston and head and it ran on, not sure how much further, I sold it. Got fed up of the quirky handling

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