Alibre – A First Attempt

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Nigel now that you have your new mouse you won't need to use the slider at the side of ANY screen, with the curser anywhere on screen just gently roll the mouse wheel up and down.

Red (orange actually) dot in that corner is default, you should be able to get a drop down for that one and pick any corner but suggest you don't for now.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Jason –

Your post appeared after I'd replied to Martin & Nick or I'd have put this in the same reply.

No I was not just dragging the triangle about!

I was using the right constraint tool and nodes but it flipped up-side down as it connected to the cylinder. I tried it two or three times and it acted like that each time.

I note your tip to start the drawing on the ZX plane though.

.

David –

I'd not noticed the little cross for the file itself, rather than the whole programme. Will look again.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel,

Using the cursor keys to Pan the workspace in Atom3D is slow – that isn't an issue with re-calculation, it's just slow.

You can rotate the workspace by holding down Shift whilst using cursor keys – that works at a more usable speed.

If size of controls for selection is an issue, there are various options in Alibre to re-size icons etc. for clarity. If after customising, there are still items that are too small for easy selection, please feed back to Alibre.

Your computer hardware is not fantastic, but should cope OK with Atom3D as long as models don't get too complex. There are things that can be done in settings to improve responsiveness if you suffer display lag.

Ches,

Have you set the 'Snap Threshold'? – if it is zero or very small, you do then have to be very precise with the mouse, especially if working with a high DPI monitor. I find 3mm a good starting value (there are separate settings for 2D sketch in 3D workspaces, and for Sketch in the 2D Drawing workspace).

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/04/2023 07:57:42:

David –

I'd not noticed the little cross for the file itself, rather than the whole programme. Will look again.

It is for the current WORKSPACE, it closes the workspace, but leaves the program (the Home Window) open. There is a separate cross on the Home Window to entirely close the program.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

Ady, Jason,

Thank you for the comments.

I don't want to hijack Nigel's thread too much, but may ask the occasional question

Ches

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 29/04/2023 07:47:14:

Nick. – Alibre has that set of cube symbols whose home aspect seems to be the one with the red dot on the lower right front corner, but I think it refers to how the drawing is started. If so, if that's already on the wrong plane it will still be on the wrong plane whenever you return it to the home aspect.

Yes, that's how you use it!

Your initial planning ensures that you model the first part so it makes sense to you compared to Alibre's origin and planes. So your column sketch would be rotated around the vertical axis, or the base extruded from the horizontal plane which is how I would start and build everything from there. Then you can click on the front(or whatever) view, and check your new part/sketch aligns the way you expect before committing to it and wasting time and frustration.

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

Thanks for the clarification Jason, I misunderstood what Nigel was trying to do. I thought he was designing a shaft for his steam lorry.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 28/04/2023 22:25:52:

…

Anyway I went mouse-hunting today and have now installed a nice new 2-button and wheel device of the sort Alibre expects. Purrr…..

…until I tried that exercise yet again.

Disaster.

The mouse is so sensitive and rapid that in my wobbly hand I cannot…

Hopeless….

.

More relevant information leaking out – Nigel has a wobbly hand.

Unfortunately CAD requires a minimum level of eye-hand co-ordination, and if necessary, it has to be acquired by practice. I said in my post of the 27th instant: ' Wait for the new mouse to arrive, and start by learning to use it properly.' Basic mouse skills have to be mastered before tackling CAD. Inadequate mouse skills mean the operator can't point and click accurately, either not activating the expected function or activating a wrong one. Very confusing.

Don't despair. Mouse speed can be slowed down. Gaming mice often have a DPI button so it can be done on the fly. Otherwise its a Microsoft Setting. I'm on Linux so this may not be quite right. Try: Start > Settings > Devices and then click the Mouse Icon (one of several on screen left ). From that find 'Properties', which will present a line of tabs, one of which opens a window allowing mouse speed to be changed. ('I think it's labelled Pointer&#39

I suspect yet more woes are caused by leaping ahead far too quickly. A British Learner would be ill-advised to begin his first driving lesson on the Arc de Triomphe during the Paris rush hour; the experience would probably put them off driving ever again! On day two I find Nigel trying stuff that would took me weeks to get to. Personally, I find it necessary to learn the ropes before risking an ocean voyage.

My advice, start slowly, keep it simple until sure the basics are grasped before moving on to the next step. Always be ready to go back when things go wrong. Yes it takes time and discipline, but there's a point where simple-step learning suddenly comes together. After that progress is rapid and it is possible to flit from tool to tool. However, at the beginning, there are no shortcuts, especially for wobbly handed techno-phobes! It's a pity a mentor isn't available, I'm certain Nigel's mistakes are individually tiny, and the lesson only goes off the rails because they go uncorrected due to inexperience.

Screen shots would help: that a learner can't see what's wrong with them is irrelevant – it's what an Alibre expert makes of them that matters. Nigel deciding screen shots aren't worth posting is a mistake – they're much more useful to helpers than a story about wrecking a B&B television set!

Don't give up, slow down and persist.

Dave

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I have pushed that tutorial exercise a stage further, but omitted the stage I cannot do.

'

Lee-

I'm not sure why you thought I was trying to draw part of my steam-lorry.

No, I was trying to follow the introductory tutorial first published in MEW a few years ago, but did invent a couple of basic but random exercises of my own.

I am nowhere near using 3D CAD for any real designs, as I had wanted, and now doubt I can ever reach that level.

.

Jason –

Please don't call me a "techno-phobe" . A so-called "techno-phobe" would not try to take up CAD and might not even use the Internet. I soon know my limits in any endeavour though; and they are not based on fear (the real meaning of "phobia" ). They are not just IT-related, either, but vary considerably in height by field and topic.

I have had very kind offers of mentoring by remote-control and telephone but I am very reluctant to accept for two reasons. Firstly I was always a slow learner so it could become very frustrating for the would-be tutor. Secondly, even if we overcome the basic problems I may not be able to progress significantly anyway.

So it is unfair of me to risk wasting others' free time by acting as unpaid teachers by telephone, with no guarantee of success now or in the future. I am very grateful for such offers, but it's too much of a gamble.

I added the TV anecdote simply to lighten things a bit.

Oh, and I have slowed the mouse down a bit, making it far easier to control.

'

While far away from computers and CAD today, I decided to try progressing that scribing-block exercise a little further.

Ignore that wretched taper-generating. Use a simple parallel column and modify the base to suit. If a real design needed a taper like that I'd have to draw the parts parallel but add a text note detailing it.

I'd not expected the next part of the exercise to assemble those, but it does, so that's what I did.

It worked too, with a few attempts, despite it showing 5 not 6 planes and fewer, apparently differently-named, constraints; than shown in the words-and-music.

The column is vertical on the file thumbnail but opened lying on its side. Then it went the wrong way on assembly, but I sort of corrected it: result below. The floor plane seems to read 'XZ', which is odd, but there it is.

At least the Constraints tool didn't open with that car brake image shown by the tutorial's screen-shot: I find examples like that, and those decorating the first page, very discouraging.

The next section is how to draw the Clamp, but I had become too exhausted and demoralised for that.

 

 

 

Edited By Nigel Graham 2 on 29/04/2023 22:44:54

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

Hi Nigel, I don't know where I got that idea from! But, lorry shaft or not, you are making progress. I hope you don't give up on Alibre Atom 3D, it would be good to see what you make of it.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you Lee!

I hope I don't give up either but with only a couple of weeks left on the free version, soon need decide if it is worth me buying the full licence.

I made fairly good progress at first but then rapidly hit such basic problems that I fear not reaching a level good enough for model-engineering workshop use.

Yet obviously that level is easy to reach for all those here who display their drawings from time to time.

'

I do have some drawings of parts of my wagon, but in TurboCAD, orthographic only, and very scrappy; so I will still have to use TurboCAD to that basic level.

[lee websterParticipant @leewebster72680]

Hi Nigel, I gave up on and uninstalled Solidedge a dozen times before it clicked (sort of). I think it was just getting used to new software. I use Designspark mechanical for my cad work. DS is so easy to use, but, they are now going over to a pay per month version and altering the free version, it will still be free, but with less features. And, of course, "free" for how long? This is why I am so interested in your progress, as are others. I don't want to use SE, I might not be able to use DS, that leaves Alibre. At least you haven't had to pay for it. Have you watched the Alibre videos on youtube?

When I was teaching myself metal casting I had to run upstairs to the computer at every turn to find out what I had to do next. Videos can be useful.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It wa snot so much of a phobia, just thatthere seems to be a bit of a block on how to use.

I'm not sure that offer is completely taking up peoples free time though I am not totally sure of DavidJ's arrangements with Alibre so worth at least giving it a go.

If when you assemble two parts and they are the "wrong way" round there is an icon at the side of where the geomerty is listed, click that and it will flip the part end for end.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel,

Very sensible to leave out a step you are struggling with and move on – you can try again later either with some guidance, or as your knowledge of the software improves. It is important to feel as though you are making some progress, even if that is a bit circuitous.

Don't get too hung up on which orientation things have in the workspace – as you've found, you can re-orient parts when placing then in an assembly. You can also re-orient when making 2D drawings of your design.

Personally I rarely bother to orient my part designs relative to either the real world, or a machine they might be produced on. I know some others invariably choose initial sketch plane so that the part is 'correctly' oriented. Over time you find a way of working that you are comfortable with.

If worried about my time – you needn't be, I do paid support work for both Mintronics in UK, and for Alibre, LLC. worldwide. We know from experience that some people need a lot more help to get going than others.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Lee-

I tried SolidEdge too but its tutorials are difficult to find and arranged incoherently within the over-inflated company web-site, and despite claims to be for CAD beginners, demand a fair amount of prior CAD knowledge. For example, it does not explain "synchronised" and "ordered" modes (it does not use the words in their real meanings), and though by simple menu switch, you are not told why and how to choose which for the particular drawing.

Once in the tutorial, creating a simple roller on a pair of journals, Part One was reasonably easy and I soon created the expected result, by simply following a step-by-step guide to a simple drawing. That is not necessarily learning it, especially when even starting the drawing baffles you with jargon of no evident meaning and effect. Part Two of the Siemens' guide was so well hidden, I never found it and I felt abandoned.

The literature seems really written for experienced CAD users converting to professional SE editions. Or at least with little thought for a CAD novice needing learn "only" How To Draw Machine Parts.

I think Siemens came late to the amateur market. Its professional main-stay, Solid Works, was only ever aimed at commercial customers with lots of money, employing professional draughts-people taught the software in university or trade courses. SolidEdge (Community) appears a latecomer tacked on when Siemens realised people were buying TurboCAD, Fusion and now also Alibre.

.

I had used TurboCAD for several years and still need do, but can use it in only 2D: it offers a direct 2D/3D choice for any drawing. Its very powerful 3D mode allows extremely high quality, isometric assembly-drawings and near-photographic renderings with no discrete Assembling From Parts system, but is fiendishly difficult to learn at even basic level. Even its printing function common to both 2D and 3D modes is no easier, either.

.

So I decided to see if Alibre is any easier to learn than SE and certainly TC's 3D mode.

It is, by providing tools that are about as simple to use as they can be by CAD standards, but are very powerful behind the screen, seeming to combine two or three separate steps in one move.

"Easier" though is highly subjective so while everyone else can use Alibre to a high level, can I….?

'''''''''

Jason –

You are right about my having a block rather than fear, and I have always met such blocks in all activities and studies, so it's hardly surprising I meet them in CAD. Sometimes I can overcome them but it can take a very long time to do so, possibly by direct help but usually from some unexpected link. Other blocks though become impossible to break and may even stop me advancing any further in the entire subject.

Whatever the arrangements, any sort of remote tutoring is still a burden for the tutor, and I don't want that even though obviously at my telephone expense. (I don't have 'Zoom' type equipment.)

Thank you for that icon tip. I'd noticed it, and the arrow next to it, but not known what they do. I'd not expected a simple rod to have an "up" and "down", either!

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 30/04/2023 09:44:45:

I think Siemens came late to the amateur market. Its professional main-stay, Solid Works, was only ever aimed at commercial customers with lots of money, employing professional draughts-people taught the software in university or trade courses. SolidEdge (Community) appears a latecomer tacked on when Siemens realised people were buying TurboCAD, Fusion and now also Alibre.

For clarification SolidWorks is NOT a Siemens product, it is produced by Dassault Systemes.

Siemens 'Top End' 3D CAD is NX. Solid Edge is aimed a similar market to SolidWorks.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

That arrow and the two that become yellow at the top left of the screen are to undo or redo an operation, undo up the top is the most useful as if something does not do what you wanted, simply clicking that arrow will take you back a step (several if clicked several times) so rather than feeling you have to start something again you can backtrack.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Thank you for that clarification on who makes what, David.

.

Jason – I know the undo / redo arrows, which are common to a lot of software, though they seem limited in Alibre's trial version to just one step, and in only Sketch or Model mode – I forget which.

I've also searched in vain for the individual file closing command, by both File menu and by the secondary closing cross in the corner (not the big one that closes the lot). The tutorial also refers to opening the file menu by the trade-mark roundel up in the top-left corner, but that appears only on the Home page. It is not on the drawing pages in either Sketch or Model view: their topmost, furthest-left sign does other things.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 29/04/2023 09:52:25:

Posted by Nigel Graham 2 on 28/04/2023 22:25:52:

…

Anyway I went mouse-hunting today and have now installed a nice new 2-button and wheel device of the sort Alibre expects. Purrr…..

…until I tried that exercise yet again.

Disaster.

The mouse is so sensitive and rapid that in my wobbly hand I cannot…

Hopeless….

.

 

More relevant information leaking out – Nigel has a wobbly hand.

Unfortunately CAD requires a minimum level of eye-hand co-ordination, and if necessary, it has to be acquired by practice. I said in my post of the 27th instant: ' Wait for the new mouse to arrive, and start by learning to use it properly.' Basic mouse skills have to be mastered before tackling CAD. Inadequate mouse skills mean the operator can't point and click accurately, either not activating the expected function or activating a wrong one. Very confusing.

[…]

.

Wise words, Dave

That said [and at the risk of introducing further complication], I would recommend that Nigel tries using a ‘digitising tablet’ of some sort … most of these can be used either in ‘screen mode’ or in ‘mouse mode’ and some have the option of using either a ‘pen’ or a ‘puck’

An optimised man-machine interface can work wonders !

MichaelG.

.

Edit: ___ Many others available, but Wacom is a good place to start looking:

https://www.wacom.com/en-gb/products

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/04/2023 11:31:35

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Nigel,

As previously mentioned – the close file, and close program crosses are as per this image

The 'trade mark roundel' was too difficult for many users to comprehend, so was dropped. A pity, I liked it.

As I mentioned things have been updated since the MEW tutorial, Including some new capabilities.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

David,

This cross closes the current file.

This cross closes the whole program.

Thanks for the heads-up. Seems a bit counterintuitive that the outer 'envelope' cross closes that which is within the program. …but if I think about it long enough I guess I can see the logic. Anyway, it is now a 'known known' to me, so no excuses.

Ches.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

"I think Siemens came late to the amateur market."

Well of course Siemens has never tried to enter the "Amateur Market" Nigel. What it did was to make it's entry level commercial CAD product (exactly the same one it provides to Academic Customers) available free of charge to amateurs such as myself. It's a subtle but important difference but as a result I have access to a first class CAD system that can produce very impressive results in the right hands (albeit possibly not mine at the moment).

Nor do I share your view of the tutorials provided. At one time I was involved professionaly in the marketing of 'e-Learning' products and therefore have some technical knowledge of them. The Siemens tutorials have been made to a very high standard and will have cost a great deal to produce. Frankly they were neither very hard to find or use. I found them very useful to build that all important "I can probably do this" initial confidence.

There's also no problem with Synchonous vs Ordered modes in Solid Edge. As I advised you (some time ago) you just need to use Synchonous exclusivley (and forget Ordered all together) – it was (and still is) as simple as that….

So whilst I'm sorry that you've had so much trouble migrating from 2D to 3D, I do feel that many of the problems you've experienced have been self-inflicted. Others are probably not going to be so attached to some of the (2D/TC) practices that you seem reluctant to let go of. It's something that I do understand (having made the same journey myself) but you just have to let your 'TC' thinking go and move on.

I hope that Alibre finally provides that elusive 'bridge' you've been seeking to make this particular migration, in the same way that Solid Edge has most certainly been mine. But that's going to be mostly down to you.

Regards,

IanT

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Ches,

I arranged the 'Home Window' in front of the current workspace simply to show both in one image.

The Home Window is always active whenever the program is open (but often ends up behind the current workspace). There can be one or more workspaces open, each in its own window.

[Ches Green UKParticipant @chesgreenuk]

David,

Ah, thanks. I don't know what I was thinking.

Maybe a lack of caffeine – off for a top-up.

Ches

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

It is no different to having several tabs "open" along the top of your browser, cross on each tab will shut that individual one but the browser stays open. Same with alibre you can have several drawings, models, assemblies open at the same time and just close any one of them but Atom will still be running

Edited By JasonB on 30/04/2023 13:30:43

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