Alibre 11.2

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Posted by Ziggar on 29/12/2012 18:58:15:

on a lot of forums, asking for a code to bypass paying for a leading piece of software would lead to an instant banning of the member that asked. No matter what the 'excuse' or reasoning. It seems to be OK

Edited By Ziggar on 29/12/2012 18:58:43

Did I miss that part of the discussion ? All I'm reading about here is someone trying to bring some very interesting engine designs to a wider audience.

[Michael Ellis 1Participant @michaelellis1]

DClark-Alibre says this URL will lead you to the Alibre viewer and instructions. I have a fiber optic ISP with a 10M email allowed so I can probably convert them for you.

http://www.alibre.com/register/viewer.aspx?id=799550

ellis

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by David Jupp on 29/12/2012 21:33:01:

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 29/12/2012 20:56:59:

Before jumping in, has anyone actually checked the Alibre T&Cs? …

Neil

Yes – see my post earlier.

Alibre used to allow licence transfer/sale, but no longer do so.

This is where the greed and lust for control that these companies show gets out of hand for me.

What definition do they use to determine when their overpriced software has actually been transferred to a third party?

Do they mean that no one but the 'licensee' can ever use the software to draw even but the most trivial of things, or is it only sustained disobedience that provokes their wrath?

Back in the real world, what kind of reaction would it get, if for example, SONY/PANASONIC etc, insisted that only the original purchaser (licensee) could view or listen to a TV or radio made by them and must never be sold on. By the same rights, what would happen to the used car sector if the motor manufacturers decided to control the market in this way too?

As money is just a means of exchange, I think I'll have my own EULA that forbids using money from my purchases to buy things of which I disapprove – list supplied upon application after transaction is complete.

Martin.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

Martin…I believe you to be moraly correct.
Books have simular wording…not lent or sold..largely uninforced…
this all means that software is only ever on loan to the purchaser and if the publisher stops supporting that version then "tough pay for newest or get stuffed"…..All veryfine and dandy until you realise YOUR work is in a file with THEIR propriatry format so that you can't use your work until you pay the ransom upgrade fee…Sickens me

Edited By jason udall on 30/12/2012 00:19:22

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

A quick google…

A libre so in A (as in not) and libre (as in free)…..

But tobe fair probaly no worse than anyone else

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

The bit that annoys me is most of this stuff is internet connected nowadays and it automatically upgrades and generally stuffs itself up.

I have just had to have Alibre reset my account for no apparent reason, computer hasn't changed but said incorrect password and it's not a simple 6 or 7 digit password you enter but literally 5 lines of gobbledygook.

They reset it OK but cost me two days of not working.

Cam system used to be the same, required an Internet connection so it could phone home and check it was valid. Only problem is none of the CNC machines or demo machines go on the net or have any network connections at all.

So setup and 3 days later it falls over, hang on I know I only have the right to use it but these contracts refuse your legal rights.

Probably I shouldn't post this on here but two of the main programs I need for my living are pirated programs. I have bought the version I use but run the pirated versions so as to get round the Internet connection / dongle situation.

John S.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

John..you wouldn't be the first to need to do that.

I some times feel more effort has been expended on the anti copy sw than on the product,,Bring back dongles.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by John Stevenson on 30/12/2012 00:37:36:

The bit that annoys me is most of this stuff is internet connected nowadays and it automatically upgrades and generally stuffs itself up.

I have just had to have Alibre reset my account for no apparent reason, computer hasn't changed but said incorrect password and it's not a simple 6 or 7 digit password you enter but literally 5 lines of gobbledygook.

They reset it OK but cost me two days of not working.

Cam system used to be the same, required an Internet connection so it could phone home and check it was valid. Only problem is none of the CNC machines or demo machines go on the net or have any network connections at all.

So setup and 3 days later it falls over, hang on I know I only have the right to use it but these contracts refuse your legal rights.

Probably I shouldn't post this on here but two of the main programs I need for my living are pirated programs. I have bought the version I use but run the pirated versions so as to get round the Internet connection / dongle situation.

John S.

Don't blame you one bit, John – whose money is it anyway?

It's like these wallys in restaurants/glorified cafes that somehow think they have the right to impose a 'service charge' on top of the inflated price they command for cod and chips. Like they've done you a massive favour by getting it to your table without going via the floor first.

Have they forgotten how cheap Greggs is

Martin.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

No stuff the dongles, they are not the answer.

One answer is to keep prices reasonable so it not worth pirating, Reasonable prices means more sales so they can keep the price reasonable.

Unfortunately head shed attitude is hey guys sales are down 10% so we need to increases prices, then wonder why the next quarters sales are even lower.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I never expected to get a code. I can find cracked codes all over the net.

I just expected someone would come up with a way to view the files.

regards David

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

What sickens me about all of this, is that some people think that other people's property should be free ro use, copy, share, give away or pirate. It does not seem to matter that those other people have spend their money and time writing computer programs, music, it does not matter what is is, just let me abuse your rights!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Well said, KWIL

Digital copying is easy and very cheap: Therefore the "perceived value" gets reduced to nothing.

But … The actual value, of course, is in the Intellectual Property.

MichaelG.

.

Before anyone shouts … Yes; some software suppliers do seem greedy; but it's their choice of Business Model, so take it or leave it. For example: A few years ago, we bought Adobe Creative Suite. Then [very shortly], they launched CS2 and we upgraded, at considerable expense.

At the next upgrade cycle, I decided that enough was enough.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 30/12/2012 10:31:07

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Yes Kwil I follow that but software as a main example abuses peoples rights like nothing else out there.

In this country it even circumvents peoples rights.

Now this is were I bang on about fit for purpose. Buy a pair of shoes, the sole falls off and the law is on your side to get it sorted.

Buy a piece of software, then find out it won't do what they say it will and try and get a refund.

Do you have to register your shoes to use them? Can you sell your shoes to someone else and they just wear them straight away.

They still insist on printing the UCLA [ or whatever] license agreement on the sealed disk that says

"By installing the software your are agreeing to the licence terms contained on this disk " Even though that was thrown out by the high court years ago.

You are a business, you buy a copy of XXX 2013, it goes down on the books as an asset.

You cease trading and you cannot sell that asset so you have to pay tax on that value.

If it's an asset by law you have the right to sell it but in this case because of licensing you are crippled.

Name me one product in this country thay craps on your rights like software ??

Music is a different matter but here I have no sympathy because in the old days you could buy the physical copy, listen to it and sell it on if you wanted, try some was taped etc but not that much.

Now with downloads tey sell you the right to listen to it at the same price but youhave no physical copy. What does a downlaod cost ? pence but the price doesn't reflect it.

Let me make it clear I don't condone piracy but they have brought a lot of it on thier heads by greed.

My CAD program is two versions old, I have the newer versions, all paid for but still the the older version as it suits me better and a lot of users are in the same boat.

We now have the developers saying that unless we move on and everyone keeps buying the upgrades they cannot afford to support new versions but there is nothing in the two newer versions that anyone needs, just all bells and whistles. In fact they have gone backwards because if I want to rn the newer versions a lot of my specialised macros don't work.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

John, I fear the accounting basis is wrong. You have not bought an asset ie capital, you have merely paid for a licence to use ie revenue cost. Since it has no resale value unlike a machine at some future point, the fee hit has to be taken in that tax year.

The argument about physical copy has not value either, the vinyl disk with the music track on it was merely a vehicle to allow the music to be played, yes you could sell it on, but, like your shoes it wore out. Software does not wear out neither does a download. The tedium of taping a record was a sufficient, but not entire deterrent to wholesale copying, banks of disk writers are are not.

As for fit for purpose, you have answered your own question. You have determined that the old versions of the CAD suit your purposes, even though you chose to pay for newer ones. Trial software exists to allow you to choose to proceed or not to proceed with a fully licenced version.

I agree the problems still exist, that is the nature of it all.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Sorry software does wear out and sometime without even using it.

 

Seeing as we are on an Alibre thread I used to run the £99 PE edition on an XP machine, worked fine for what I did.

Upgadeed to W7 and the £99 version won't run on it so had to shell out £159 plus VAT to get it to run ON THE SAME LICENSE.

 

Not an upgrade price, same price as anyone starting out so in effect paid £159 + £99 + VAT

 

Fact is you still can't return software if you have an issue which is the only thing I can find that goes against the Sale of Goods Act.

 

John S.

Edited By John Stevenson on 30/12/2012 11:15:17

[Donhe7Participant @donhe7]

Posted by KWIL on 30/12/2012 09:47:08:

What sickens me about all of this, is that some people think that other people's property should be free ro use, copy, share, give away or pirate. It does not seem to matter that those other people have spend their money and time writing computer programs, music, it does not matter what is is, just let me abuse your rights!

The point of this thread is, not to be able to illegally copy, use, sell or otherwise gain advantage from the software, but simply to recover the details of a series of projects created using a "legal" version of the software.

At no time does the OP express the desire to use the actual software itself, but wishes to recover the "intellectual" property, unfortunately concealed within the software, with the permission of the estate of the creator of the projects

donhe7

Edited By Donhe7 on 30/12/2012 11:18:09

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by Donhe7 on 30/12/2012 11:14:46:

At no time does the OP express the desire to use the actual software itself, but wishes to recover the "intellectual" property, unfortunately concealed within the software, with the permission of the

estate of the creator of the projects

donhe7

Very good point Don?

That the user has "intellectual" rights and in the case of the software not working for different reasons what wil the software makes do so you can get your rights back?

Simple answer, expect you to pay more.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Donhe7 on 30/12/2012 11:14:46:

At no time does the OP express the desire to use the actual software itself, but wishes to recover the "intellectual" property, unfortunately concealed within the software, with the permission of the estate of the creator of the projects

donhe7

Edited By Donhe7 on 30/12/2012 11:18:09

Donhe7,

Whist I have every faith in DC's good intentions

I must point out that history has been re-written.

… Check the edit details.

MichaelG.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

So you always say exactly what you mean first time round Michael ?

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Well the market eventually decides how things turn out, regardless of what may be written into any legislation or EULAs.

The very notion that rights are retained once a product is sold is wrong to my way of thinking and we're all disadvantaged because of it, so it's not a game I'm prepared to play. I think this is why so many 'artistes' are back on the road, as they can no long sit back whilst the royalties roll in – it's now largely a question of being paid per performance and rightly so.

The thought of doing a job once and retaining on-going control whilst being paid ad infinitum is certainly appealing to some, but if that's going to happen, shouldn't it apply to everyone that has something to sell?

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 30/12/2012 12:41:20

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John Stevenson on 30/12/2012 12:24:33:

So you always say exactly what you mean first time round Michael ?

Probably not …

And, as I said, I have every faith in DC's good intentions.

MichaelG.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I edited it because I did not want people to think I use pirated software.

I have long since stopped doing this.

And I have only ever done it to check if a program was worth buying and then many years ago.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 30/12/2012 14:30:58

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

I do not need to purchase Alibre because I have a perfectly good and legal copy of Turbo Cad which will open almost everything I throw at it except Draft Choice for Windows DXF files.

regards David

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Well I don't mind admitting that I still do the same, been bitten too many times in the past.

I must admit that I do get offered a lot of software, some genuine and some not so.

At one time I would have had a look at some of it but realised that if it was decent, could I afford the full version ? Usual answer was no so why waste any time looking at something you can't use.

All software has a learning curve so why waste time on it when it could be put to better use.

For this reason there are no copies of anything by Autodek, Solid Works etc on my machine bent or otherwise.

John S.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 30/12/2012 14:32:49:

Hi There

I do not need to purchase Alibre because I have a perfectly good and legal copy of Turbo Cad which will open almost everything I throw at it except Draft Choice for Windows DXF files.

regards David

Damn, That's how you are supposed to use it ?

I didn't throw anything at it, I threw it in the bin, the Morris Marina of the CAD world……..

John S.

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