Aircraft General Discussion

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

As a change from the usual Spitfires practicing over the village I just had the dead sparrows Red Arrows go almost directly overhead at fairly low level while I was firing up the barbeque.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

At least you get a seat in this latest billionaires jaunt.

Regards Ian.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I was sat outside this afternoon sorting a load of imperial spanners i got from freegle when I heard the sound of a Radial engine, i looked towards Old Warden to see the Lysander following a Shorts Skyvan very closely I assume for photography purposes, they went around a couple of times and then disappeared, after about ten minutes i heard a flock of Merlins heading towards me attached to the Lancaster, a friend told me that his village, Bromham, was expecting a Fly by of it, when I saw her pass over she was heading due east.

Martin P

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

When nasa wanted to piggy back the shuttle on a conventional plane they used a jumbo. I wonder why virgin has gone to the expense of making that twin fuselage affair. The only advantage I can see is that you'd need a crane to put the smaller craft on top of a jumbo, whereas with the virgin setup you can just jack it up.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

A 747 does not go high enough. A 747 will get to around 43,000 ft while the Eve mothership goes to at least 50,000ft.

Edit: To clarify further. The NASA 747 was just for transport between site. The Eve is basically the first stage of the launch system

Robert.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 09/07/2023 17:05:28

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

In addition to Robert’s points, two other things to take into account are:

It is a lot easier to drop a rocket than try to “throw” it off the top of the launch aircraft. The rocket drops like the proverbial stone. Have a look at a video of Orbital Science launching a Pegasus rocket from their Tristar.

The other point is a bit more esoteric. There are many videos showing how weapons dropped from an aircraft can fly back up and hit the aircraft, often inflicting serious damage. I suspect that falling free from a simple wing, as is the case for Virgin’s Mothership, is a lot cleaner than dropping from a conventional aeroplane, giving lower risk. A flight test to confirm safe release of stores from an aeroplane is part and parcel of weapon integration on an airframe.

Dave

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Note that the Orbital Science Tristar, contrary to what is implied on a lot of websites and other media, was engineered in the UK. Marshalls of Cambridge designed and installed the modification. This included large changes to the pressure hull. This was a lot more complex than the Virgin Orbit modification that used the existing "spare" engine mount on the 747 Wing.

Robert.

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

The Tristar also needed significant reinforcement to the centre wing. All of the new parts were fitted inside the wing box and had to be able to fit through a manhole in the lower skin. That meant that for the spar cap reinforcement, for example, each length had to be split into three sections and spliced together on installation.

An aeroplane cabin is pressurised by bleeding air from the engines, reducing their thrust. To be able to reach the highest possible launch height, the OS Tristar was unpressurised, allowing all of the engine power to be used as thrust. The crew were provided with oxygen via masks as a result.

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by DrDave on 09/07/2023 19:55:35:

…….

It is a lot easier to drop a rocket than try to “throw” it off the top of the launch aircraft. The rocket drops like the proverbial stone. Have a look at a video of Orbital Science launching a Pegasus rocket from their Tristar….

Dave

Very good point.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

I guess the other point is that when NASA did launch from a 747 it was to prove that the shuttle could land unpowered so effectively it was carrying a glider. Top loading would give best airflow over the shuttle wings and with a combination of the thicker atmosphere and getting the airspeed right the shuttle would be effectively flying at the point of detachment. Probably a case of the Shuttle dropping the 747.

regards Martin

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by duncan webster on 10/07/2023 14:09:42:

Posted by DrDave on 09/07/2023 19:55:35:

…….

It is a lot easier to drop a rocket than try to “throw” it off the top of the launch aircraft. The rocket drops like the proverbial stone. Have a look at a video of Orbital Science launching a Pegasus rocket from their Tristar….

Dave

Very good point.

Not always. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbAKDJGykgY

Robert.

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 10/07/2023 15:19:43:

Posted by duncan webster on 10/07/2023 14:09:42:

Posted by DrDave on 09/07/2023 19:55:35:

…….

It is a lot easier to drop a rocket than try to “throw” it off the top of the launch aircraft. The rocket drops like the proverbial stone. Have a look at a video of Orbital Science launching a Pegasus rocket from their Tristar….

Dave

Very good point.

Not always. See: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbAKDJGykgY

Robert.

As I said in my second point. “There are many videos showing how weapons dropped from an aircraft can fly back up and hit the aircraft, often inflicting serious damage”

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Indeed,
I was replying to Duncan with an example. I should have referenced you though.

Robert.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

There has been a Catalina / PBY over the village recently. Got a couple of snaps today. Not great quality, overcast, raining and shot from a window. Canon M100 and EOS-M 55-200.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

There has been a Catalina / PBY over the village recently.

Plane Sailing Catalina

I have some pictures of that in a couple of locations at airshows.

Nigel B.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

According to a tracker fitted to the aircraft she is currently at Duxford, her base.

Martin P

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

Turned back from RIAT because of thw weather?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Electric ‘Air Taxi’… very brief demo

**LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-66266184?xtor=ES-208-%5B63343_NEWS_NLB_GET_Week32_Tuesday_08_August%5D-20230808-%5Bnewsbusiness_travel_air%5D

MichaelG.

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 08/08/2023 08:36:22:

Electric ‘Air Taxi’… very brief demo

**LINK**

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/business-66266184?xtor=ES-208-%5B63343_NEWS_NLB_GET_Week32_Tuesday_08_August%5D-20230808-%5Bnewsbusiness_travel_air%5D

MichaelG.

Aviation history is chockablock with flying cars and personal transport for the everyman. They all fail and god help us if the muppets I see on the road ever take to the air. If Uber and minicab drivers take to the air it's hard hat and bunker time .

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

For my day job I work as an engineer at a Charity that keeps vintage Royal Navy aircraft flying. We are currently in the process of scoping out the acquisition of a Gannet to add to the fleet. However before we do that we need engineers with experience of the Gannet aircraft to assist with assessing what will need to be done with the one we are hoping to acquire before it can be returned to the UK from its current base in the USA.

If anyone has any Gannet experience that would be relevant they would really love to hear from you.

Home

 

Edited By Jon Lawes on 11/08/2023 21:06:05

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Surprised that the recent 'Landing' on the motorway central reservation crash barrier didn't saw the fusegulge in half.

Regards Ian.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

The Gannet was one of my favourite planes to see, good luck in your endeavours to resurrect this lovely aircraft.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Only work I ever did on a Gannett was a bit of cleaning and corrosion prevention on the one that was at the South Wales aircraft museum ( the one at Rhoose not the current one at St Athan) back in the mid 80's

Edit. The Gannett was XA459. She is now at Solway (Carlisle) and finally getting some attention. Funnily enough I also helped with Vulcan XJ823 at Carlise when I worked there in the early 80's

On the taxi flight, there was less coverage of the crash of a Vertical Aerospace prototype during a unmanned test flight at Kemble last week https://www.flightglobal.com/aerospace/vertical-faces-setback-after-vx4-prototype-crashes-during-flight-testing/154475.article

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 12/08/2023 09:37:07

[Lee RogersParticipant @leerogers95060]

Posted by Circlip on 12/08/2023 08:12:27:

Surprised that the recent 'Landing' on the motorway central reservation crash barrier didn't saw the fusegulge in half.

Regards Ian.

Info is a bit scant at this early stage. It seems that a very quick decision was made, neither carriageway was clear enough so it was straight down the middle . The pilot kept flying it all the way to a stop and power to his very cool elbow for that. The Fournier does stand quite high on its u/c so that's probably what saved it .

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