Aircraft General Discussion

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by Robert Atkinson 2 on 19/06/2021 21:50:21:

Not really a flaw, more of a compromise. There are limited options for where the locking pins can go. The engineer is supposed to be skilled and qualified on the aircraft type. The designer will take thi into accound when deciding what level of "fool-proofing" is required. As gear locking pins are not a flight safety issue it will have a fairly low priority. You can't make a whole fleet of aircraft potentially heavier (burns more fuel) and more expensive just on the off-chance that a skilled person makes a mistake.
There are much more important items that have similar compromises. There hav been a number of cases of A320 series aircraft taking off without cowlings latched properly. This is despite the flight crew checking them as well as the maintence staff. They painted the latchs to make them more visible, still happened, the put a spring "pusher" inot the system so the two halces would not join just under gravity and it still happens.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5422eb8840f0b6134600008f/dft_avsafety_pdf_501061.pdf

https://www.gov.uk/aaib-reports/aircraft-accident-report-1-2015-airbus-a319-131-g-euoe-24-may-2013#download-full-report

I'll wait for the accident report before I comment on the actual incident.

This stuff is part of my day job.

Robert G8RPI.

The report has been issued: **LINK**

An airworthyness directive was issued in 2020 to prevent this occurrence, but probably it was not yet performed on this aircraft as the deadline is 2023. Quite unfortunate.

Regarding the fancowls on the airbus, in 2015 an AD was issued to fit a locking key with a flag on the fwd latch and a techlog entry for its removal. The newer aircraft eliminated the problem altogether as apart from visual indicators on the fan cowl itself, there is also an indication on the cockpit displays.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The 787 document is only a Special Bulletin not a final report. It does confirm Buffers suspicion that they put the locking pin into the middle of a pivot (apex) pin. I don't think the final report will say much else. I thought it odd that the locking pin would fit snugly but from the illustrtions in the SB the apex pin bore tapers so it probably felt OK as it went home. Classic 3 bits of cheese (google Reason swiss cheese accident) incident.

1/ Design constrains and poor hazard assesment left apex pin open in middle close to locking pin location.

2/ SB not embodied and (presumably mechanics had not read technical information letter).

3/ Mechanics did not get a step ladder so they could see what they were doing properly rather the reaching at arms length and feeing for a hole with the end of pin.

There would have been a lot more injuries if they had been loadng Pax at the time.

It annoys me somewhat when discussing mitigation for safety issues and someone tries to use "it will only be done by skilled trained personell" that is not a reasonable defence.

Robert G8RPI

This is my personal opinion and may not reflect that of my employer.

Edited By Robert Atkinson 2 on 16/07/2021 12:02:07

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

PBS America , last night , Electric aircraft ,present progress.

Distinctly underwhelmed by what has been achieved and massive over-hype on what can be achieved.

Little more than what serious RCME types know already.

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, Sunday 1st August, sitting on a bench at Grafham Water, as I am the son of a WW2 Merlin Engine Fitter it is programmed into my DNA to be alerted by the sound of V12 aero engines, a quick scan of the sky revealed a Spitfire & a Hurricane some distance away, climbing, diving, circling & being treated to the sound of that engine taking the load off the propeller in a shallow dive, this carried on for about half an hour, definitely was not expecting an air display out of the blue!

BobH

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Nothing like the whine of a Merlin at nearly full chat on it's way past. Even better when four joined together or ultimately two mounted on a wooden wing.

Regards Ian.

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

There was an air show at Old Warden on Sunday afternoon. Possibly aircraft from there. There was (I think) a Spitfire holding north of the airfield mid-afternoon that you might have seen/heard.

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

My SIL was cycling by RAF Coningsby on Sunday and said a couple of Spitfires landed while he was waiting at the traffic lights, he's not up on aircraft recognition, so one could have been a Hurricane!

In 1953 my friends and I cycled to RAF Coningsby for the BofB show, as a Metoer made a low level pass over the airfield it broke up, killing the pilot and injuring 2 spectators. Being lads, as we left we were all questioned that we had not picked up any debris. Think I might be a bit of a Jonah, we were at Goodwood in 1962 when Stirling Moss had his bad crash!

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Just had a Spitfire fly low over our house, I would estimate about 200 feet, checked on Flightradar24 and no ident shown, it proceeded to fly South towards the coast we are about 2 miles from the coast and about 4 miles east of Eastbourne. Was in the workshop busy fettling a couple of bearing pins for my Allchin build when I heard the roar of the Merlin, so dropped everything and went outside to watch. Not unusual to get Spitfires over our house but they usually have an IFF code displayed on Flightradar24 . Ah well back to my fettling then. Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Unless his wheels were down he wouldnt have been below 500 ft over rural areas and 1000 ft over built up areas.

Martin P

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Martin

I can assure that he was definitely below 500 feet, I have worked on Spitfires and Hurricanes during my 22 years in the Air Force, he was not displaying IFF on Flightradar24 and presumably it was switched off for a reason, possibly because he wanted to do a low pass, he actually circled 360 degrees over our village then flew South. When Spitfires overfly our village they are usually at about 800 feet according to their data displayed on Flightradar24, just lately we see a number of Spitfire flights, sometimes in pairs, today’s sighting was considerably lower than usual sightings. Dave W

[JAParticipant @ja]

Try to find the person in your village who has a friend that flies a Spitfire.

The son of a friend at work was a Tornado navigator who sometimes flew low over his parent's house. In the end the locals had a quiet word with him when he was on leave.

JA

Edited By JA on 06/08/2021 16:16:47

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

JA

We have a number of airline pilots resident in the village because we are handy for Gatwick, or we did pre COVID, not sure how many are still employed as pilots, so it’s conceivable that one of their mates decided to do a sneaky low fly past. One of my friends was lucky enough to fly in a two seater Spitfire, wife bought the trip for him as a milestone birthday present, I know he came over the village and did a very low fly past over his house, the CAA can’t keep tabs on every flight so it’s worth the risk. The Spit today obviously had a reason or connection with the village to do a 360 circuit, weather was dry but certainly a bit gusty. Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

All the more reason to find him and report him, the rules are not there to be broken, we have several airfields around us and we had one particular pilot who regularly used to practice his aerobatic manoeuvres directly above the village, a phone call to the local airfields with his registration and he doesnt do it anymore, I spend hours reading about and spotting aircraft etc but I dont see why they should get away with it.

Martin P

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Martin,

So far I guess this is probably a one-off, but need to be vigilant. Certainly if I am in my workshop there is no mistaking a Merlin engine when it passes overhead, I always go outside to observe and check on Flightradar24 to see how high it is and which registration it is. Neighbours think I am a bit of a saddo rushing out every time an aircraft passes, but aircraft have been a major part of my working life having spent 22 years working on a huge variety of aircraft when in the Air Force. Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

As a lad I lived in a town surrounded by the countries biggest airport, East Anglia, we were surrounded by military and civilian airfields, Mildenhall, Lakenheath, Wattisham, Honnington, I can remember Super Sabres at Lakenheath, SR71's at Mildenhall, eight years in the ATC got visits to most of the bases etc, summer camps at Wittering, Colerne where they had a hanger full of WW2 german aircraft, Wattisham had a ME109 for years in bits in a hanger, just over 7 years at Duxford volunteering on the Museums B17G, from a crate of parts to standing on its undercarriage.

We live about four miles from the Shuttleworth Museum so there is always something to look at overhead.

Martin P

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Hi Martin

We seem to have very similar interests in aircraft, my first posting in the Air Force was to a Salvage and Transportation unit, moved a wide variety of historic aircraft around the country,Beaufighter, Mosquito, Spitfires, Hurricanes, Gloster Gladiator, Valiant,Lysander, Messerschmidt 410, Scimitar, Canberra, Lightning prototype P1A, and a V1 flying bomb to name but a few. Also in 1965 we took a Hurricane and Spitfire to the Guildhall in London for the 25th anniversary of the Battle of Britain, the Hurricane was displayed outside in the Guildhall courtyard and the Spitfire we took to pieces and it was taken into the Guildhall itself and displayed as a centrepiece for the function to which many World War Two flying Aces were invited, including the likes of Douglas Badger. The most awkward bit of the Spitfire to get into the Guildhall was the wings, the entrance was pretty small and the wings only went in diagonally across the doorway, we had to carry them in by hand, not easy. The downside of being on that unit was that we picked up aircraft crashes, both civil and military, could be pretty gruesome. Dave W

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Samsaranda on 07/08/2021 09:50:11:

…

The downside of being on that unit was that we picked up aircraft crashes, both civil and military, could be pretty gruesome. Dave W

Friend of mine bought a badly written off MG Sports Car for parts and found what was left of the driver's foot jambed under the pedals. My mate was a cheerful boy racer, but he slowed down after finding it…

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

SOD

Must have been quite sobering for him. I know after serving on the Salvage unit I wasn’t too keen on flying for a while but the effect soon moderated, good job really because later in my service I had to fly 12 hours non stop from Ascension Island to Port Stanley in a Hercules with in flight refuelling, a mind numbing flight. Dave W

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I loved every opportunity to have a flight in something, from a gliding course from which I went solo three times with the ATC through thirty six types up to a 747, flying backwards in a transport command Bristol Brittania was fun, as we got to Prestwick the aircraft developed an oil leak within the right wing and we returned to Lynham with all of the ambulances and fire trucks waiting at the beggining of the runway as we landed

Going to Cambridge for air experience flights in the University Chipmunks and being instructed in the escape routine with the final words jump, jump, jump, please dont say pardon you will be talking to yourself.

Martin P

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Martin

I spent 8 years working on Britannia’s in the Air Force, was at Lyneham carrying out major servicing then at Brize Norton working on the line squadron, flew to the continent and also Canada and the US with them, they were a big part of my working life. Remember having an aborted takeoff at the Naval Air Station New Orleans, was sitting in a spare seat on the flight deck when that happened, certainly wakes you up when your hurtling down the runway with full brakes and reverse pitch hoping you don’t end up in the swamps at the end of the runway, cause for the abort was a spurious jet pipe temperature overheat. Certainly had good times in the Air Force and would do it all again in a flash. Dave W

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Martin I see from your profile that we have something else in common, Lister Stationary engines, I have a Lister A and a Lister D in my workshop which I am hoping to resurrect to life someday. Dave W

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

Anyone know what large 4 engined prop aircraft flew over south Lincs around 3pm this afternoon? Unfortunatley I had an 'eye stroke' last year and my distant eyesight is just a blur, so I was unable to recognise it.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Your location it would likely be the Lancaster.

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 07/08/2021 17:38:28

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Samsaranda,

Morning, I've sent you a PM

Martin P

[Alan MellorParticipant @alanmellor68824]

Posted by Adam Mara on 07/08/2021 17:34:28:

Anyone know what large 4 engined prop aircraft flew over south Lincs around 3pm this afternoon? Unfortunatley I had an 'eye stroke' last year and my distant eyesight is just a blur, so I was unable to recognise it.

B17 "Sally B" was holding around Boston for East Kirkby Air Show.

Alan

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