Aircraft General Discussion

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Flew back from Kenya in a DC6, took off in a thunderstorm at night and immediately was covered in St. Elmos fire! Passengers thought the plane was on fire. Landed at an Italian Air Force base somewhere, refuelled and took off again very quickly. Was a bit noisier and some vibration, not as quiet as the Brittania I flew out on facing backwards!

Clive

[davidkParticipant @davidk]

G-APSA isn't airworthy anymore unfortunately.

The DC-6 in question will be the Red Bull DC-6B OE-LDM. She's made a few flights in and out of Cranfield this week.

David

[NimbleParticipant @nimble]

Today I noticed the death notice of Ivan Albert MUDROVCICH. Who apparently was attempting to re create the Pearse flying machine. I have been informed that the engine could actually be started from a static position by careful positioning of the piston and the switching on of ignition. Sadly I believe his ill health has hindered progress in his endeavours. I believe that the flying machine was towed on a trailer and it was shown that it managed to achieve sufficient lift to achieve flight. I do not know whether other team members will carry on with his endeavours.

**LINK**

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

At approx 11:00 today a PBY-5a Catalina passed over Bedfordshire carrying out a Submarine sweep whilst heading west to a show.

 

Martin P

Edited By martin perman on 27/07/2018 16:32:59

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

For those that may be interested, a WW2 Hawker Typhoon is on show at RAF Coningsby until September.

Acording to the news, the process to bring the Typhoon over from an aviation museum in Canada wasn't an easy one though.

It was disassembled and then put back together – much like an airfix kit – when it arrived at RAF Coningsby.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The only major problem keeping the Typhoon from flying is the engine, there just arn't any servicable Napier Sabres, and they would be far too costly to overhaul to flight standards, most unfortunate, I love the Tiffy, and the later Tornardo.

Ian S C

[davidkParticipant @davidk]

Hawker Typhoon RB396 is undergoing a rebuild to fly, hopefully in 2024. The Hawker Typhoon Preservation Group have managed to secure a Napier Sabre IIa that will be rebuilt to airworthy condition. A mammoth project by any standards. Really looking forward to seeing that one in the air!

**LINK**

David

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

That's great David, those engines (Napier Sabre) are a master piece in complication, there is a cut away one at the RNZAF Museum in Christchurch NZ.

In my above post I actually meant to put Tempest, the Tornardo was the aircraft that was developed before the Typhoon, and lead on to the two later aircraft. Today you could keep a squadron of Spitfires in the air for less than the cost of one Typhoon, good on them.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 29/07/2018 12:20:03

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

There is a (partial) list of Napier engines here. I'm pretty sure there is one in the Science Museum in Edinburgh but it's years since I've been and the mind plays tricks. Certainly recall the amazing complexity of the H engine and the sleeve valves from somewhere and that was one place I spent many hours staring at engines and other technology.

Some interesting pics and history here.

Murray

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Martin P – Did the Catalina find any subs in Bedfordshire. I know the Ouse goes out to the wash, but wasn't aware we were under attack from subs any longer.
BobH

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Don't know about finding subs, but the Dutch Cat dented it's nose when it landed with the nose wheel retracted after a hydraulic failure.

Ian S C

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 29/07/2018 14:33:07:

Martin P – Did the Catalina find any subs in Bedfordshire. I know the Ouse goes out to the wash, but wasn't aware we were under attack from subs any longer.
BobH

Bob, I watched it for a while but didn't see any depth charges dropped so I would assume no

Martin P

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by martin perman on 27/07/2018 16:32:08:

At approx 11:00 today a PBY-5a Catalina passed over Bedfordshire carrying out a Submarine sweep whilst heading west to a show.

Did it find any

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Neill,

Please see post above.

Martin P

[Anonymous]

Far too many weeds in the Great Ouse. Any sub would get entangled and be sent to the bottom.

Andrew

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi all, with regard to the Napier Sabre engine there is a cutaway one powered by an electric motor in the air museum at Duxford, on pressing the button to activate it one might easily become dizzy watching so many parts moving in different directions! Looking on the bright side however its sleeve valve so no valves, rockers, camshafts & no valve bounce. What a brute they were, during WW2 my dear old dad who was like dog doo when it came to being everywhere, was sent to Farnborough to take the engine fitters course on that engine, why doesn't that surprise me & when they were in service got to taxi Typhoons fitted with them about on the airfield, in those days you didn't need a private pilots license to fly a model aeroplane.

At the time the Air Ministry Specification was written Hawkers submitted 3 designs, the Typhoon, Tempest & Tornado, the first 2 of course being built & the Tornado name resurfacing on the modern aircraft, this very week there are pictures from the BBMF of the WW2 Tiffie & Eurofighter carrying the same name posed next to each other, an outing to said location on the books then, soon.

I believe I'm right in saying that the 1940s Tornado might have inadvertently ended up packing 6 Hispano Suiza 20 mm cannons, £105 at the factory gate Squire, situated 2 miles from where I'm sitting in those days & yes the old man worked there as a fitter/turner before he went into the RAF.

Cheers BobH.

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

There is a radial sleeve valve cut away engine at Old Warden which I assume is a Napier Sabre.

The Catalina droned back over Bedford towards Duxford yesterday afternoon, low in the sky again.

Martin P

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

If the engine at Old Warden is a radial, it must either be a Bristol Hercules(14 cyl), or Centarus(18 cyl), both air cooled. The Napier Sabre is an H 24, virtually two horizontally opposed 12 cylinder engines geared together, and liquid cooled.

Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 31/07/2018 13:48:54

Edited By Ian S C on 31/07/2018 13:49:44

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Having spent seven years volunteering at Duxford I know the engine and what made me think the Typhoon and Tempest had radials god only knows, I will put it down to the heat.

Martin P

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Martin, the reason you thought they had radial engines was of course that was the direction their development took, late marks of the Tempest were experimentally fitted with the 57 litre twin row 18 cylinder Bristol Centaurus which almost immediately morphed into the Fury & thence the Sea Fury, truly monsters & still featuring in warbird air races in the US to this day, I did see one displayed at an air show that had been dragged back from India or Pakistan, which is where they all ended up as the Jet Age dawned, that had airframe & engine hours that you could count on your thumbs, that was Navy Blue & adorned with the insignia of every force that had ever flown them, a sight for sore eyes indeed. At the back end of WW2, 1944, D-Day & all that, my dad was stationed at RAF Manston & he told me that it was not unheard of to get a visit from a 109 or 190 with british markings flying lower than a snakes belly & hoping to create a big impression, to counter this problem they had a radial engined Tempest in polished bare metal fitted with Nitrous Oxide injection! It was, he said the most terrifying thing he ever saw when it descended from on high running on Nitro with the 4 cannons blazing away, apparently it didn't take long for them to give up on that master plan. I bet you thought that a Suzuki Katana having an extra 100 bhp dumped in its lap at the push of a button was going some.

Bob H

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Good luck with RB396, will it have fishplates and an isolated Oxygen supply for the pilot?

Regards Ian.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The Tempest II was powered by the Bristol Centarus, various reasons are given as to why it failed to go into production, one was that a Minister in the Government did not like Bristol, or someone at Bristol. The Tempest I, and V, and VI were powered by Napier Sabre engines, the V won the day, and went into service in April 1944. The II became the last piston engined fighter to serve with the RAF, the first arriving in November 1945.

About the Typhoon: a quote from a New Zealand Typhoon pilot Group Captain D. J. Scott, DSO, OBE, DFC and Bar, plus decorations from France, Belgium, And Holland."Where as the Spitfire always behaved like a well-mannered thoroughbred on first acquaintance, the Typhoon always reminded me of a low_bred carthorse whose pedigree had received a sharp infusion of hot-headed sprinters blood".

Ian S C

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

The Sabre is an interesting engine, not least because of the H configuration. Before the war, Brough had built a motorbike with an H4 engine, with two counter rotating crankshafts. Each crankshaft has just one throw, with the opposing pair of cylinders on the same throw. They are geared together so that all four pistons move together, eg one side of the engine is at top dead centre while the other side is at bottom. Both crankshafts have balance weights to fully balance their share of the reciprocating mass. Since the crankshafts rotate in opposite directions, the balance weights cancel each other in one plane, while acting in the same plane to counterbalance the reciprocating weight of the pistons. Since the rod swings are in opposite directions the secondary imbalance also cancels out. So the balance is perfect, and also the firing order is perfectly even, one cylinder firing every 180 degrees.

So getting back to the Sabre, when the H arrangement is applied to a 24 cylinder engine, you can achieve the same thing, except that you no longer need the balance weights. If each set of four pistons is all moving together as above, then the cranks can be made up just like a six cylinder engine, giving perfect primary balance without any need for balance weights. This would obviously be desirable for an aircraft engine.

The thing is, I don't know if the Sabre was actually set up like that…The only drawing I have implies that it was not, but that is an artists cutaway view, and the artist may not have realised the subtleties of the design.

John

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Interesting video of P-51 forced landing short of Duxford after engine failure. I always felt a little nervous during air shows when I lived locally, even if we benefited from some glorious free displays!

Murray

[Anonymous]

Posted by Muzzer on 03/08/2018 22:18:04:

Interesting video of P-51 forced landing short of Duxford after engine failure………

Wasn't that the one where Bedfordshire Police covered themselves in glory (well something else) by "helping" the recovery lorry and aircraft to get stuck on a junction as the traffic lights were in the way?

Just had a Merlin powered Spitfire fly over the bungalow; poor weather here so he was well below 1000 feet. Made my afternoon.

Andrew

[Author]

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