Aircraft General Discussion

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Just spotted this on the News summary: **LINK**

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/lancaster-bomber-used-honour-dambusters-faces-scrap-due-death/

MichaelG.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Martin – re. the Harvard, you could try the query on the Biz Jets etc. or the Private Flying forums on the PPRUNE website – **LINK**

Having queried some less-than-clever flying on the PF forum previously, I should warn you that the response may not be overly sympathetic!! The GA brigade have a proportion of their brethren who appear to believe that 'rules' are for other people

The Harvard , in particular, with its supersonic prop tips has a nuisance value all its own!!

rgds

Bill

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Bill,

Thanks for that, normally at an airshow I would enjoy the display and the prop noise but over several villages and above mine I'm certain there are restriction to aerobatics in built up areas. I've emailed one airfield Tower near me where I believe the aircraft is based, did a search of markings and colour, but have not yet had a reply.

Martin P

[Graham TitmanParticipant @grahamtitman81812]

Martin until Sywell had it's new runway we had the Blades practice regularly over us every other day and complaining was like doing something into the wind and we are 8 miles from Sywell and it was the same when they had the air races some years ago at 2 to 300 feet .

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

Posted by Cornish Jack on 16/01/2018 18:59:04:

"the fastest helicopter in the world was retired today, four Lynx helicopters"

Gordon Bennett, that makes me feel old.

I was operating on D Sqdn at Boscombe when the Lynx was being tested for entry into service – and a fearsome beast it was!! First of our hingeless rotor system 'fling wings' and it had an initial tendency to collect engine oil in the exhaust which made Firemen's attendance at engine starts essential!! One also shed a blade weight, which caused a degree of excitement. The trial flights for max speed checks were exciting (to watch!!) as were the series of negative 'G' pitch-ins, Only managed one working trip – a Navex to check the mobile moving-map display. No idea whether that went into service or not … hope not

rgds

Bill

I did my apprenticeship then finalised on D-Squadron! I'm still on site but working for an American company that begins with a B now…

[robjon44Participant @robjon44]

Hi guys, heard loud clattering noise this morning, looked out of window to behold an Apache attack helicopter about 300 yards away not very high at all! It did a slow circuit then disappeared heading north over the Trent Valley. In my humble opinion it seemed to be loaded for bear.

Bob.

[DrDaveParticipant @drdave]

What looked (and sounded) like the BBMF Dakota flew past a few minutes ago. It always makes me feel years older than I am when I see it: the very first aircraft that I flew in was a Dakota, back in the 70’s.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/02/2018 21:35:41:

Just spotted this on the News summary: **LINK**

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/lancaster-bomber-used-honour-dambusters-faces-scrap-due-death/

MichaelG.

This makes no sense. If the gent is so rich his estate will attract inheritance tax his heirs can sell the lanc for what it's worth and pay the tax. If he sells it for less than it's worth now the money will still be taxed unless he gives it away and then lives for another 7 years, but he could give the lanc away on the same basis. If it is worth big bucks and he dies why should it be tax exempt? Why would his heirs sell it for less than it's worth? If it were to go for scrap value I'm sure some museum would buy it.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by duncan webster on 29/03/2018 21:10:15:

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 26/02/2018 21:35:41:

Just spotted this on the News summary: **LINK**

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/02/26/lancaster-bomber-used-honour-dambusters-faces-scrap-due-death/

MichaelG.

This makes no sense. If the gent is so rich his estate will attract inheritance tax his heirs can sell the lanc for what it's worth and pay the tax. If he sells it for less than it's worth now the money will still be taxed unless he gives it away and then lives for another 7 years, but he could give the lanc away on the same basis. If it is worth big bucks and he dies why should it be tax exempt? Why would his heirs sell it for less than it's worth? If it were to go for scrap value I'm sure some museum would buy it.

Indeed – complete drivel.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Just don't ask the UK govt to have sympathy, they don't want any one to remember that there was a Bomber Command during WW2,.

Ian S C

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

**LINK**

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5571423/RAF-veteran-pilot-82-relives-split-second-decision-fly-busy-Tower-Bridge.html

I wonder if anyone is up for a 100 years of the RAF unofficial fly past? It would be fun to see a Typhoon repeat the stunt.

Mike

[davebParticipant @daveb17630]

Not the first to fly under Tower Bridge, Mr Godefroy did it too!

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

"It would be fun to see a Typhoon repeat the stunt."

Hmmm! Mr (Ex Flt Lt ) Pollock (Pillock??) seeks to justify his stupidity in an interview. He, and those who support him, have the advantage, presumably, of never having had to clear up the blood and guts mess which such self-assessment of competence can produce!! Those of us who have, will, I suspect, not wish for a repeat, no matter how many goggle-eyed gawkers want to applaud.

Perhaps a return to public executions would serve as a thrill-seekers alternative! If this sounds harsh, it is meant to be so

rgds

Bill

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I suspect the medical discharge was justified and not just to deny a platform to the pilot, I am sure that pilots are checked out these days to ensure they don't take matters into their own hands when in charge of a £100m pounds worth of machinery armed with devastating weaponry. Maybe I should have added a smiley as it was not a serious suggestion Bill. I actually went to the 50 year event at RAF Abingdon at which the Queen was present, I had to get a day off school to go, my father was serving in the RAF at the time just 2 years away from his retirement. It seemed a great privilege to be there.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 04/04/2018 18:23:09

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

As an ex RAF salvage person I entirely agree with the comments expressed by Cornish Jack.

Dave W

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

MANY years ago, when we lived on Shoreham Beach, on a Sunday morning we would be treated to the sight and sound of a P51D, or occasionally a replica Vickers Gun Bus, in the circuit.

I think that the P51 was owned by the son of Peter Masefield, (the boss of BOAC?).

Happy days!

Howard

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Mike – your point is taken but, unfortunately, the response you made is being repeated, with serious intent, elsewhere. There is a worryingly large body of opinion which sees this sort of activity as 'just harmless boy's pranks'.

I have operated on both sides of the debate – I had to recover my predecessor's personal effects from the crash site where he died and I have flown a Tristar under the Verrazzano Narrows Bridge in N Y and a 747- 400 under the Golden Gate Bridge in S F – (twice!) Both were accomplished in the only environment for such – a full flight Sim. The latter were no more than careful trimming, monitoring and observation and … very satisfying. Nobody and nothing was at risk. Aviation, (the real, not virtual variety) possibly more than any other environment, is no place for self-indulgent stupidity.

rgds

Bill

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

At least Mr Pollock survived. The chap who flew under Clifton Suspension Bridge didn't!

I once did a man management course that centred on the work history of a senior US pilot who crashed a B52 following a series of increasingly serious incidents, all of which were ignored by authority. Yes the pilot crashed the plane killing himself and the crew, but the cause was persistent failure of his commanders to manage the pilots increasing disrespect for 'rules'. That this can happen in a disciplined organisation as professional as the USAF was frightening.

A person causing trouble may well be a person in trouble, needing help. The course taught us to tackle behavioural problems head on, not to sweep them under the carpet. Aircrew are generally well-trained and highly intelligent. Sadly being well-trained and intelligent is no bar to mental illness. It's hinted at in all three cases.

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

When we are young we are convinced we are indestructible, I realise that the things I did on a motorcycle as a young man could have ended very differently. Douglas Bader discovered that he was not indestructible and that the machinery could bite you if you don't respect it.

Mike

[Trevor Crossman 1Participant @trevorcrossman1]

Yes I too have read the B52 account which was a damming inditement of US Airforce management, and back in the late 50's and through the early 60'swhen I signed up, a very similar culture was prevalent in the RAF, which operated as if it were a sort of uniformed flying club generously provided for the pleasure of the officer pilots. At that time individual bases had what was called the Station Flight with one or more of 'their own' aircraft, usually smallish old transport types which although they did do official work were also used as a sort of taxi or hire car for the Station Commander and other senior officers and strangely with many 'official' journeys being made at weekends and holiday times, often to parts of the kingdom where there was little to do but play golf or fly fishing! Fitters who lived in Scotland often had free trips home in return for servicing the aircraft turn-rounds.

So the introverted, class dominated culture that Flt Lt Pollock lived in was radically different from today's seriously professional Service. Luckily Pollock's escapade did not end in disaster though it could so easily have done, but he man was a Fool, not a hero and the RAF wisely got rid of him before he did any more damage.

Trevor

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

I have this from a respected source many years ago but don't know if it's 100% true. Apparently it is highly classified information (if true) & could cost my source, at best his pension & at worse his liberty. It is a story I have used many times whenever the subject of M/F equality rears it's ugly head.

Kara Hultgreen was the first female to certify for carrier based combat flight.

It is considered that the single most difficult thing a human can achieve, is to land an armed fast jet on a carrier at night in bad weather, as if doing it in glorious sunshine was easy ! Please don't confuse this with those things we do that have a low chance of success, or things that require perfectly controlled conditions.

Kara Hultgreen got there, not because she was the token female at a time when pressure was on to let females take part, she got there because she scored very highly in most of the stages on the path. She was in the top 10% of people who by their very achievements are in the top 1% of human ability.

She was a card carrying member of 'The Yacht Club', they don't hand them out like Smarties.

Kara died after crashing on approach to a carrier landing shortly after she qualified. (I won't go into detail because the facts surrounding this are well documented on the net). This caused the whole controversial subject of female combat pilots to raise it's ugly head. (Again, the facts are well documented).

Part of that controversy was the examination into the mistakes she had made . . . I hope I don't have to explain to you how those mistakes are so thoroughly examined at each stage on this particular career path. The mistakes she made are well documented & form part of the synopsis of the investigation into her death.

What they won't tell you, the bit that is classified 'Top Secret' & can get so many people into trouble in so many different ways . . . Is that when her medical records were matched to her performance (as a pilot) chart, there appeared a clear link to her poor performance & her menstrual cycle.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 04/04/2018 20:03:02:

At least Mr Pollock survived. The chap who flew under Clifton Suspension Bridge didn't!

I once did a man management course that centred on the work history of a senior US pilot who crashed a B52 following a series of increasingly serious incidents, all of which were ignored by authority. Yes the pilot crashed the plane killing himself and the crew, but the cause was persistent failure of his commanders to manage the pilots increasing disrespect for 'rules'. That this can happen in a disciplined organisation as professional as the USAF was frightening.

A person causing trouble may well be a person in trouble, needing help. The course taught us to tackle behavioural problems head on, not to sweep them under the carpet. Aircrew are generally well-trained and highly intelligent. Sadly being well-trained and intelligent is no bar to mental illness. It's hinted at in all three cases.

Dave

Another significant crash was the Korean Air Cargo 747 freighter flight 8509 that crashed on takeoff from Stansted in 1999.

The crash was due to a number of causes, mainly instrument failure (which was not fixed from the previous flight) and pilot error, but it was compounded by the cockpit hierarchy which gave the captain rigid control with the first officer and other crew discouraged from attempting to challenge him.

Had there been freer atmosphere in the cockpit, the accident may well not have happened.

When all the holes in the Swiss cheese line up……………

[Barnaby WildeParticipant @barnabywilde70941]

From my same source, & this one really is 100% true because I'm a part of it.

We were bestest of mates at Uni'. Not because we had all that much in common, but because we 'thought' the same. Almost psychic, we somehow knew what the other was thinking.

A few years after we'd gone our seperate ways he had his 'big off' on his motorcycle, smashing himself up just about as much as it's possible & still live. With not much to do & not many friends to do it with, he looked me up & invited me to care for him on the first day of the RIAT, the day that is closed to the public & reserved pretty much as an international arms fair.

All went fairly well untill we bumped into the famous navigator, turned author, turned TV opinionater, who'se latest book sailed very close to exposing some very real secrets about the totally useless aircraft he used to be a passenger in.

Sensing my old mates discomfort, I took control, politely made our excuses & quickly wheeled him away.

I hope that I have brushed upon just how close me & this old mate of mine are, because within seconds I had asked him "was that why I'm here".

We have no secrets from each other because there can be no secrets. If you can guess who that author was then you can go look up the book & second guess which parts of it my mate wanted to ram down my throat.

He wrote a book about an aircraft that was killing its pilots & nobody knew why. At least officially.

The rest of the story is classified, it really is 'Top Secret' & can get a lot of people into a lot of trouble.

[David Standing 1Participant @davidstanding1]

Posted by Mick Charity on 04/04/2018 21:29:20:

From my same source, & this one really is 100% true because I'm a part of it.

We were bestest of mates at Uni'. Not because we had all that much in common, but because we 'thought' the same. Almost psychic, we somehow knew what the other was thinking.

A few years after we'd gone our seperate ways he had his 'big off' on his motorcycle, smashing himself up just about as much as it's possible & still live. With not much to do & not many friends to do it with, he looked me up & invited me to care for him on the first day of the RIAT, the day that is closed to the public & reserved pretty much as an international arms fair.

All went fairly well untill we bumped into the famous navigator, turned author, turned TV opinionater, who'se latest book sailed very close to exposing some very real secrets about the totally useless aircraft he used to be a passenger in.

Sensing my old mates discomfort, I took control, politely made our excuses & quickly wheeled him away.

I hope that I have brushed upon just how close me & this old mate of mine are, because within seconds I had asked him "was that why I'm here".

We have no secrets from each other because there can be no secrets. If you can guess who that author was then you can go look up the book & second guess which parts of it my mate wanted to ram down my throat.

He wrote a book about an aircraft that was killing its pilots & nobody knew why. At least officially.

The rest of the story is classified, it really is 'Top Secret' & can get a lot of people into a lot of trouble.

AJN?

[BOB BLACKSHAW 1Participant @bobblackshaw1]

I have just had a general look at the posts as I'm on the night shift and have nothing else better to do. As aircraft accidents appear on recent posts, I tried to find a accident on the internet that happened around 1967 at Christmas time, but cant find any record of it.

The crash site was Vauxhall motors Luton, a small jet took of from Luton airport, and Vauxhalls is at the end of the runway. I remember my father getting a phone call to come in as he was on maintenance, and was needed for cutting the structure of the building away from the aircraft. I remember him telling me that the pilot was badly burnt and looked like a lump of cork.

As I've said, reading this discussion I have tried to get some information on the internet about this accident, but nothing about it at all.

Bob

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