Aircraft General Discussion

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Bit about the RC-135s,training in US, 2011 and on, delivery to UK, late 2013 to 2018,. 3 aircraft. The 11 Nimrods are to be replaced with 9 MRA-4 aircraft. Perhaps the old Shackletons, with turboprops, it was a sad (for some)day here when the Sunderlands went,but the Orions do a good job, they cover an area from the Antartic to the Equator.

Saw something about RC aircraft with the motor from a cell phone vibrator, and the phone battery, wing span ? 3-4″. Ian S C

 

[AESParticipant @aes]

To Cornish Jack,

 

Please see message sent to you re Aircraft Manuals (and Indoor fliers).

 

Krgds

AES

[AESParticipant @aes]

Gents (and ladies?),

 

You may want to try this video link.

 

http://www.neptunuslex.com/2010/12/10/good-day-at-the-patch

 

If you haven’t already seen it (it’s from 2009 apparently) I think you’ll enjoy it, especially if you like older, “big piston bangers” or even “modern fuel to noise converters” in sexy mil hardware.

 

You have to cut and paste the URL into your browser (sorry I don’t know how to make a proper link, the funny chain thing at the top of the posting window doesn’t seem to work for me).

 

Then when it comes up (it was quite quick on my PC), just hit the red “Play” arrow. Do NOT hit the “ignore the ad” button (otherwise you’ll get a horrid double echo soundtrack).

 

Hope you like it.

 

Krgds

AES

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Thanks AES for pointing the way to this excellent piece of film. The short piece toward the end with the veteran in the cockpit should put it all in perspective for us oldies whatever we’ve been involved with in our early years. Though it would have been nice to have had a bit longer on the flying scenes none the less a very enjoyable short video.

 

The Bearcat held an attraction in the late sixties when model wise the control line ‘carrier event’ was introduced at an early Old Warden ‘Scale’ day.

 

I built this model for the event whilst working on an oil rig around 1968. The rig toolpusher got to hear about it and came to have a look – turned out he had been a pilot after the war and had flown Bearcats, P51 Mustangs and P38 Lightnings as well. I never attended the event as was on the rig on the day but it was just as well as the model was rather tail heavy and proved extremely difficult to control on the first flight but a substantial piece of lead cured that. The event called for lots of power – originally the airframe was designed for a 1.5cc motor – about 24″ span I think but that was an OS40 R/C motor crammed in there

By todays standards it looks very dated but I remember making all the transfers for it using gummed paper and varnish which, at the time, I felt quite proud of – all drawn by hand, no computers to help then eh? It had throttle control and the hook could be dropped to catch hold of arrester wires but I never did get the chance to try that out. The photograph shows its age – it was taken from a slide – remember them?

 

Sorry about the nostalgia – can’t help it I’m afraid – I’m a lost cause

 

Regards – Ramon

Edited By Ramon Wilson on 04/02/2011 23:50:50

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Andy

My son worked on a Sunderland flying boat down at Calshot the home of the R.J Mitchells racers . to prepare it to be flown to the USA in the 90s Bought by Hermit Weeks .who was going to return it to its wartime livery ie repaint refit guns etc.

Regards Nobby

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

Could that be Kermit Weeks? See here

 

Can someone help? I always understood that the Canberra bomber was powered by Rolls Royce Avon engines. Was there an occasion when one was specially fitted with Olympus engines, maybe for a high altitude attempt. When? Which marque of Olympus? Was this the pre-decessor of the Olympus that powered the Concorde?

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

One Canberra (forgotten the number) was converted to accept Olympus engines (development versions of the Vulcan type) and took the height record on two occasions.

 

I was an apprentice in the Development Flight Department at the time of the preparations for the second go. We took masses of equipment off the aircraft, weighing it as we went. Someone reckoned that every pound weight we removed would put another nine inches on the height.

 

After the engines were started, a couple of fitters quickly removed the Rotax starters because they were particularly heavy. Off she went with only Walter Gibb up, and we all stood about waiting for her return. On landing, no-one could go near, of course, until the Officials removed the recording altimeter to take away for reading.

 

It was a stinking hot summer and I remember that a real treat after a test flight was to rest our backs against the Plexiglass in front of the bomb aimers position as it staid cold for quite a long time. As long as we behaved and put some real effort in, we apprentices could get away with all sorts of things.

[AESParticipant @aes]

Knobby & Niloch,

 

Yes it was KERMIT Weeks (weird name!). I saw the aeroplane once, I can’t be sure now, but wasn’t it mored on the Thames, near HMS Belfast?

 

And wasn’t there also some dispute about whether it was/was not really a Sunderland or actually a Short Sandringham – i.e. built by Shorts from the outset as a pax aeroplane? I forget all the details now, but she is (was I guess) a lovely sight.

 

Reminds me of being a lad growing up in Kent and driving down to the seaside on the (old) A2. That meant going through Rochester town centre past the castle & Cathedral and over a steel bridge over the River Medway. As you passed over the bridge itself a glance to the right revealed at least “several” Shorts flying boats moored on the Medway near their factory. Looked lovely & shiny white in the sunshine (why was the sun always shining when I was growing up)? That must have been in the very late 1940s/early 1950s. Certainly they had all gone (along with Shorts – the was factory taken over by CAV diesel injection equip) by the time I was back nosing around that area in the late 1960s.

 

Re EE Canberras. I worked on those for a while. As you say, RR Avons (Mk 200 odds if I remember correctly). I seem to vaguely recall that there was at least one high altitude record attempt sometime in the 1950s by a Canberra fitted with a liquid fuel rocker (could it have been Napier Scorpion)? Perhaps it was a “time to climb” record attempt? And don’t forget the US licence-bulit version, Martin B 57. That, along with aeroplanes sold in considerable numbers to many overseas air forces could have been a reason for fitting Olys to at least some, though I bet the US versions were GE-powered. Or how about an experimental test bed? I would have thought the Oly would be a bit over-powered for an “ordinary” Canberra.

 

I presume you’ve tried all the usual Google, etc searches? Only other possibility would be the mag “Aeroplane Monthly” who I’m sure must have done an in-depth Canberra Profile by now (they are always well researched and pretty accurate); or there’s Key Publishing (I forget the name of their mag), but they have a web site I’m sure.

 

Let us know what you find out please.

 

Ramon – thanks for the response. Glad you enjoyed the video. Your Bearcat model looks lovely. Have you still got it? I’ve seen Carrier Deck contests several times – last time was at the C/L World Champs in France in 2000. Some English people brought the deck over on a special trailer. I seem to remember it’s called “HMS Flycatcher” (‘orrible pun).

 

Krgds

AES

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

How about Canberra WD952 Geoff ?!

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

KWIL

 

Now you jog my memory, I believe that it was WD952 – thanks.

 

The Canberra was chosen because it was the best available airframe in which the Olympus could be housed. Even so, full power could not be developed in flight because the holes in the main spar through which the jet pipes had to pass could not be enlarged. The constricted throat limited the thrust to about 82%.

 

The first height record attempt was made on 4th May 1953, when 63,668 ft. was achieved, breaking Group Captain John Cunningham’s record in a de H Vampire by over 4200 ft. The second attempt – the one when I was in the Flight Shed – was with the more powerful Mk 102 engines on 29th August 1955, when 65,889 ft. was reached.

 

All this has brought one incident vividly to mind. We had removed the bomb doors so that lightened panels could be fitted and I was stood with my head in the bomb bay, removing pumps or something similar. I was working with a fitter, quite short in stature, rather bald but with a monk-like tonsure. He suddenly disappeared in a deluge of liquid falling from above. We had unlaced a flexible bag fuel tank located in the space above the bay and two other fitters, working in the dark were rolling it forward with their shoulders so that it could be removed via a hatch further forward. What we had forgotten was that there was ‘undrainable’ fuel lying in the tank, which promptly came out of a pump location. Although he was in some discomfort, he was a comical sight, but we suppressed any laughter. Into the shower with him, find him some spare overalls and the shop manager ferried him home and gave him the rest of the day off!

 

Only a few months after this I finished my tour of the works departments and transferred to a staff post, working as a very, very, very junior Development Engineer on Olympus engines for the Vulcan! Had to go to the Flight Shed quite frequently and chatted to the unfortunate fitter who, by now could see the funnier side of things but still blamed his mates ‘up top’ for not giving him a warning.

 

Happy days.

[NobbyParticipant @nobby]

Hi Niloch

You were right I dont think he is a Hermit I spoke to him when he was checking the progress on the work down at Calshot

Regards Nobby

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The RNZAF got 16 reconditioned Mk 5 Sunderlands in 1952/3, and used them un til1967 when they were replaced by P-3 Orions. According to one of the aircrew that flew them out to NZ, the reconditioning involved a coat of paint, at least one aircraft had to be beached in Africa some where because of a leaking hull.They were passed off as “good as new”, but they served well. Ian S C

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

Do not forget about the last flying Vulcan Bomber.

Please go to the website for news on it.

 

http://www.vulcantothesky.org

 

Edited By V8Eng on 04/04/2011 16:52:33

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi V8Eng,

I have corrected your link. You had the correct URL in the title field but

the URL field only contained http:///

 

V8Eng’s corrected link

 

Les.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Hi Les.

 

OOPS!

Thanks, I usually get links right, must be having an off day.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Quite a bit of interesting stuff on the M-52 on google. While I was looking, I came across a discusion group (RNZAF I think), how many beer kegs can you get in the pressure cabin of a Vulcan? Did’nt see an answer.

Gray, the boat thatBill Hamilton used in 1960to go up the Grand Canyon had a 3 stage unit, I don’t know what engine they had. The jet units they build in Christchurch today are a far cry from the ones back in the 60s. Ian S C

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Gray, the NZ built unit proberbly had an American or Austrailian V8. ian S C

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I’m amazed that a Consul engine could even turn one stage. (ex Consul owner….)

 

Of course boats, other than flying boats, are actually off topic in this thread…..

 

regards

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

C W F Hamilton’s first boat, a 12 footer with a Ford 100E, I’v been looking for info on the Grand canyon boats. The motor used on a lot of the early units was the Ford Zephyr. Better quit on this one, perhaps it could be an interesting subject for model boats. Ian S C    ps Saw reference to a 3 stage Dowty 1959!!

Edited By Ian S C on 12/04/2011 13:08:09

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Not to worry Graham, my tongue was actually in my cheek, although I guess you could not see that!

 

(I think people worry too much about the odd bit of topic drift, it is a conversation after all…)

 

regards

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Here we go again, airshow time, IK did,nt get tio War Birds over Wanaka this Easter, but if anyone is in the Canterbury (NZ)area on the 22nd April, we are having our own Air Show at the local airstrip, just east of Darfield, it won't be near as big as the Easter one, it included the 75th anniversary of the RNZAF.

If there's anything interesting, I'll post a photo in my album. Ian S C

[DerryUKParticipant @derryuk]

I recently wen to RAF Cosford to view the Bristol 188. I want to build a simulation of it in my X-Plane 10 flight sim. First thought as I arrived was blummin cheek, they charge for parking. Anyway I paid my 80p and breezed into the entrance. “One concession please” I said to the young lady on the desk. “It’s free for you Sir”, crickey I thought that’s a good deal and then she added, “but it’s free for everybody.”

I used to look after a DC3 and one time we were coming into land to clear customs at Manston after a trip to Germany. I was sat towards the rear and looking at the runway through a passenger window, I could just make out the edge of the runway. A red flare went off! My heart-beat went up a bit as I wondered what was wrong with our aircraft!

The pilot abandoned the landing and opened up the engines for a go-around but needless to say we landed OK. When the pilot walked down from the cockpit he told us that the airman at the end of the runway had never seen a Dakota before and when he could only see the main wheels he thought the nose wheel was still locked up so fired his flare. Of course he soon spotted the tail wheel as we flew past him!

That aircraft is now with the RAF and is the subject of the Haynes Dakota manual.

Derry.

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Wow! Was it really a year ago that this thread went to sleep?

We wnet for a family walk on Saturday, and our near Wychnor there was a light plane up. He seemed to be pulling up steeply andteh engine working hard and he surprised me by pulling a loop! It didn't look very aerobatic, but he proceeded to do at least a few rolls and an immelman turn – one 'stunt' per pass over the area of open fields where we were.

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Have not heard yet, but Air New Zealands new Boing 777 visited the show at Easter, and supposidly was to do some aerobatics. The biggest we'll get at our show will be the DC-3, no aerobatics, but pleanty of passenger rides, I think last time it was $NZ80 for 20 min or so, also rides in a Harvard, or a Mustang (rear seat where the fuel tank used to be in the rear of the cockpit),the photo of the Mustang in my album has as a passenger a local pvt pilot having his 80th birthday present at 400mph, think the whole flight cost over $NZ 1000, including a full aerobatic sesion. He usually flys a Piper PA-18 150. All the cash goes to fund the volunteer firebrigade, and ambulance. Ian S C

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

The aishow was a great day out, nothing special this year except one model jet that put on a good aerobatic display at speeds in excess of 200kph.

Later in the year at Ardmore(near Auckland) the first flight of a rebuilt Mosquito is due. The company doing the rebuild is also doing one to go to the UK.

I see that the Spitfires in Burma have been found, and are to be returned to UK, they were buryed in a 40ft deep hole. Ian S C

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