Aircraft General Discussion

[Andrew JohnstonParticipant @andrewjohnston13878]

The DH110 crash happened some years before I was born, but I have heard about it first hand, as my father was at Farnborough on that day. He was also working at de Havillands at the time, at Hatfield, so there were some ramifications at work. Sad as it may seem, in the 50’s the test pilot was a derring-do hero, and unfortunately a number were killed while pushing the boundaries. Some of my parents friends were killed in the crash of the prototype BAC1-11, after which the phenomenon of deep stall was more closely investigated. These days, with the advances in the theory and practise of computational fluid dynamics test flying is less of a risk than it used to be.

 

Coincidentally, at the time of the DH110 crash, my grandfather was also working for de Havillands. I assume that he wasn’t directly affected by the crash as, having been chief draughtsman at Airspeeds which was taken over by de Havillands in 1951, he was working near Portsmouth. This brings us neatly back to model engineering, as Nevil Shute Norway, one of the founders of Airspeeds, was a well known model engineer.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

I remember seeing the Vulcan at RNZAF Ohakea, after damaging its undercarage at the opening of Wellington airport, it looked a bit like a slightly crumpled dart. It damaged one of the main U/C legs.

The turbine agricultural aircraft(there’s more than just the Fletcher), like to put on a display at fly ins. open up hold it down a fraction longer than usual, yhen pull up near vertical with a full load (water), then either a spraying demo, or a dump, used either for emergency lightening of the load, or sometimes in fire fighting.Ian S C

[Andrew JohnstonParticipant @andrewjohnston13878]

Howard: Yes, I did come across some notes on the internet while checking the facts in my post on gluing, saying the Australia had banned the use of Aerolite. However, both Aerolite and Aerodux are widely available in the UK for use on wooden aircraft. Notes from the LAA (used to be the PFA) indicate that they are happy with Aerolite, Aerodux or some of the expoxies that are more common in the US for wooden aircraft structures.

 

In a similar vein I’ve dug out a research paper from my files by the UK Building Research Establishment on the loss of strength with time of glued joints. The basic summary is that all glued joints lose strength over time, but that resorcinol and phenol based resins are better than urea based glues. Oddly enough, for close fitting joints, casein was generally better than urea and phenol resins, especially in the wet!

 

John: I agree, it is always essential to sand plywood before gluing. I also thought it was to do with clearing the crushed fibre ends. According to the LAA though, it’s mainly to remove the waxy press release agents. Either way, if you don’t do it, you’ll get a weak joint, and a self-dis-assembly kit.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Ramon

Re. the mass airdrop – no, not ’63 (I was suffering the hardships of a bachelor’s life in Bangkok, at that time!!) ‘the one I referred to was a few years earlier in ’59. Same sort of deal and same routing to get there. We were lead Bev for the drop with the Hastings ahead of us and I have a VIVID mental picture of the last Hastings ‘losing it’ on the run-in. He must have got into the one ahead’s slipstream and there wasn’t much control leeway when you were configured for the drop. The paras must have been ‘stood up’ by then so they probably had an interesting few moments, as well !!

Your mate’s name doesn’t ring any bells but the S&R world was quite well spread out and I spent six of the fourteen helo’  years instructing.

Most definitely an age thing- sorry, what was I saying?

Rgds

Bill

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

See the Mustang in my album, its a 2 seat aircraft, and for $NZ 2000, you can have about half an hour. The pasenger on the flight in the photo is a mate of mine, a local Piper PA-18 owner, the piper will never be the same. A flight of full aerobatics,concluded with a high speed dive from 5000ft, and a low level run over the air strip at something over400mph. Thats what his wife and son got him for his 70th birthday. Ian S C

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Does anybody remember the wonderful centre page illustrations of aeroplanes, locomotives , tanks and many other things that used to appear in the Eagle and some other 1950/60 comics ?

 

Geoffrey Wheeler did most of them and some of his cutaway ones of aircraft were very finely detailed .

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 31/12/2010 10:37:09

[Geoff TheasbyParticipant @geofftheasby]

If you are into illustrations of aircraft, etc, have a look at “British Piston Aero Engines and their aircraft” by Alec Lumsden.   It contains some great cutaway drawings of engines.

 

Regards

Geoff Theasby

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

With regard to the splendid illustrations in the Eagle, the Eagle Annual of the Cutaways is still available on Amazon.

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

I just looked for ‘aircraft cutaways’ to see if I could find the beautifully drawn ones I remember that were in a magazine of my youth – perhaps ‘Flight’ or ‘Flying Review’. I always wondered where the artist actually began.

If you are interested in cutaways then a quick Google will probably surprise and certainly delight you

 

Bill(CJ), – a couple of years or so before my time but I would have a fair guess that that would have been Ex Solinus One!

 

Your memory of the wayward Hastings with the guy’s ‘stood up’ reminds me of a tense night over Salisbury Plain in a very turbulent Beverley when – fully kitted up – we went round five times at action stations I was well toward the back of the stick in between two quite large mates. Each time the red came on the stick moved forward only to be moved back again by the dispatchers. With the aircraft heaving and lurching the stick gradually ‘compressed’ with those at the back chomping at the bit and not responding. Being a little chap you could say I felt the pressure come on as I was gradually squeezed between ‘Nick’ and ‘Spud’ – when the green finally came on it was like the proverbial cork or maybe even a boil  – it certainly didn’t take long for the lot of us to clear the aircraft

 

Anyone else out there ex Regt or Brigade?

 

Best wishes for the New Year one and all

Regards – Ramon

 

 

[adyParticipant @ady]

Hybrid air vehicle gets 300million dollar deal.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-12110386

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

Thunderbirds are go!

 

Sorry I just couldn’t resist that one, it reminds me so much of Thunderbird 2.

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 04/01/2011 20:54:12

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

certainly there was a need to “toss” deliver and hence the rating to pull up fast and roll over through partial inversion to return in the direction from which you had arrived might be the case.

An immelman turn – still pretty impressive in a plane you could play football on!

Cutaways

 

The name on the tip of your tongue is no doubt Leslie Ashwell Wood – I was a bit afetr the Eagle, but i read many of the old annuals as a boy.

 

Neil

Edited By Stub Mandrel on 07/01/2011 20:09:59

[adyParticipant @ady]

I reckon I know why the TSR2 got canned.

 

It was too advanced, so there was no export market to secondary countries, so it was going to be a huge loss maker because overseas markets simply could not be allowed to get their hands on the technology.

Even on one engine it could out accelerate a lightning.

 

The same kind of thing happened with the exocet.

The subsonic version got sold to places like Argentina and Iraq, and the French had a supersonic upgrade planned for the missile…but it never got developed because any tom dick or harry country with supersonic exocets could potentially zap an entire US carrier battlegroup.

So there was no export market to help defray the cost.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Had a chap up North somewhere (in NZ), who designed and built a cheap cruise missile, using a home made pulse jet.  The goverment (and I think the US govt) soon put a stop to that, he had some interest from foreign governments.  I think there may still be some thing on Google about his jet powered go-kart.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

     One Thing that bugs me about a model aircraft engine thats widely known, it’s the De Havilland Cirrus, surely this is either a Blackburn Cirrus, or its a De Havilland Gypsy/ Gypsy Major, surely if the bloke who made the thing did enough research to build it he must have known its name. Maybe he  has combined parts of the design of both engines in the one, I seem to remember that they were both developed from a WW1 engine.  Ian S C

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Back in the 1970’s there was a big group of enthusiasts trying to outdo each other in making the lightest possible model aircraft and there was an annual competition inside the balloon sheds at Cardington  . Various people made gliders and powered types and some had radio control . After a few years development these planes were down to below one gram in weight and could stay in the air for more than an hour . They  were fascinating to watch in flight . Does anyone remember these competitions and has there been more recent activity ????

Edited By MICHAEL WILLIAMS on 15/01/2011 12:09:30

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Yes Michael I do.

 

Back in the eighties as much as outdoors my wife and I were keen ‘indoor’ fliers, indeed it is only in the last couple of years we have stopped attending a local meet in Lowestoft.

 

We used to go to Cardington but I never made anything lighter than what was termed EZB  and ‘Penny Plane’ models.  Heavy by comparison to the FID models which weighed the least – a minimum of 1 gram without the motor. These are the type that would fly for an hour or so. Unlike todays ARTF (almost ready to fly) which are so remarkable in their power/ weight/ manoeverability – these models were all hand constructed and displayed some of the most beautiful craftsmanship you could wish to see.

 

My wife and I volunteered to be time keepers at the 1986 World Champs at Cardington which proved to be one of the most stressful but memorable events in our modelling memories. What could be stressful you may wonder – well from the moment of launch you couldn’t take your eye off the model and 40 plus mins is a long time especiallly as once the model is up in the tops of the hangar with several other models they all look the same. Oh yes BTW we still do have the tee shirts

 

I’m no longer familiar with what is happening today as far as flying at Cardington is concerned but there are many indoor meetings held in sports centres and large halls all over the country – a visit to the BMFA site should get you more information.

 

Regards – ramon

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Thanks

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

   Been looking at Cirrus and Gypsy engines,  The ADC Airdisco Cirrus engine was developed out of the WW1 240hp Renault V8 aero engine when De Havelland wanted a 4 cylinder engine for a light aircraft, this engine required the availlability of war surplus parts for the Renault engines.  De Havelland then desided to build their own engine, starting with the Gypsy I, II, then the engine was inverted to become the Gypsy III, which in turn became the Gypsy Major.  In 1937 Blackburn took over from ADC and continued building the Cirrus.  I did a 100hr inspection of one of these in an Auster back in the mid 1960s.

   So no DH Cirrus engine, yes DH Cirrus Moth aeroplane.  Ian S C

 

[adyParticipant @ady]

Not as sexy as the TSR2, but currently suffering the same fate as not-so-great-Britain goes doon the pan.

Also realised that with the Ark Royal currently being used as a large buoy 2010/11 is the first time in something like 600+ years that Britain doesn’t have a capital ship on the high seas.

 

Nimrod aircraft scrapped at Stockport BAE factory

Work on the
controversial scrapping of nine multimillion-pound Nimrod aircraft is
under way at a BAE Systems factory in Greater Manchester.

Diggers moved in to dismantle the empty aircraft behind large screens at BAE Woodford, Stockport, on Wednesday.

Unions have criticised the decision to break-up the planes, which is costing the Ministry of Defence (MoD) £200m.

 

Unite national officer Bernie Hamilton said: “The lunatics have taken over the asylum when the government orders the Ministry of Defence to break up £4bn worth of world-class defence equipment.

 

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12292390

Edited By ady on 27/01/2011 00:42:53

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

ady, they should do what the yanks do, they could possibly do it in the same place, stick them out in the desert, and occasionaly retreave one for parts. Our govt’s just as bad, the only aircraft carring arms are the P3 Orion maratime rec AC, out strike AC are in mothballs awaiting a buyer, A4 Skyhawks. seem to remember that the last Ark Royal was to be the last aircraft carrier for the RN. Ian S C

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

MW and Ramon – re. Indoor Flying. we had a couple of enthusiasts in the Brize Club when I was Secretary and I was ‘encouraged’ to have a go … Total Disaster!! my efforts were weighable in ozs not grams and resolutely refused to fly. I was finally convinced that this was not ‘my game’ when we invited ??? Parham to give a Club talk and demo. He had a number of demo models one of which he wound and launched at the start of his talk and nearly an hour later it was still circling at ceiling height with the prop revs easily countable!!

Fantastic!!

On topic re. aircraft generally, does anyone know of any organisation which would be happy to receive a number of Tech and Perf manuals for Tristar and 747 (Classic and 400). They were kept for possible consultancy work after retirement but that’s not going to happen now!! They are mainly A4 size and. as a job lot, heavy, so not easy to move. I specify organisation rather than individual because of the possible security implications. I’m based in Norfolk, which, perhaps, adds to the logistical problems. Any suggestions, anyone, please?

Rgds

[Billy MillsParticipant @billymills]

Ady

Don’t think you mentioned the scrapping of the Canadian Avro Arrow. Very much the same story as TSR2, very advanced, very high performance and chopped up including the jigs. Subsequent US purchase to fill the void? Nimrod chopped up – When’s the AWACS coming then ?

 

Regards,

Alan.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

It seems that the last of the Mk2 Nimrods were withdrawn March 2010, and 3 RC-135 Rivit Joint airframes from the US govt are to be modified by L-3 Communications Intergrated Systems in USA. The MRA 4 aircraft (9) have been delayed.

The RNZAF gets by with just 6 P-3k Orions, so we’r not too bad after all. Ian S C

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

Bill(CJ), that would be Reg (Parham) I guess, a veritable guru in the art of indoor flying.

 

When Lowestoft ‘indoor’ first started we had two very experienced fliers attend the first few meetings – Geoff LeFevre and Ron Green. They both had these incredible F1D models but the risk of flying them with all the other sport models in the air was too great and regretably they ceased to attend. Their models were fitted with variable pitch props actuated by the torsion of the motor and though extremely fragile were beautifully built. I have always had a fascination of it and have made tentative inroads in the past – made a load of microfilm once and stored it for several years but never used it. Up the loft somewhere are some rolled balsa fuselage sticks too along with all the other paraphenalia – Oh so many ideas just not enough years.

 

Thanks for the jog though – I’ve just spent far too long viewing various sites – just google F1D – you’ll see what I mean

 

regards – Ramon

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